[Split topic] How long... will they keep going, and going...

[dclem]

My guess is Duane Clem will continue endlessly because he is afraid his current church and the parents of the youth he works with will be alerted to the possibility that there was a "former lifestyle." He has a vested interest in silencing anyone who may start digging around and asking questions.

Care to explain what you mean by a "former lifestyle"?

[uncovering truth]

My guess is Duane Clem will continue endlessly because he is afraid his current church and the parents of the youth he works with will be alerted to the possibility that there was a "former lifestyle." He has a vested interest in silencing anyone who may start digging around and asking questions.

Care to explain what you mean by a "former lifestyle"?

I know this isn't directed at me, but this is a discussion board which means anyone can jump in anywhere. After thoroughly reading your commentary at BSDA and AT, as well as letters written by you, it is plausible that there was a "former lifestyle" or at least no resistance. Are you denying the idea? Would you testify under oath that there was none?

[dclem]

My guess is Duane Clem will continue endlessly because he is afraid his current church and the parents of the youth he works with will be alerted to the possibility that there was a "former lifestyle." He has a vested interest in silencing anyone who may start digging around and asking questions.

Care to explain what you mean by a "former lifestyle"?

I know this isn't directed at me, but this is a discussion board which means anyone can jump in anywhere. After thoroughly reading your commentary at BSDA and AT, as well as letters written by you, it is plausible that there was a "former lifestyle" or at least no resistance. Are you denying the idea? Would you testify under oath that there was none?

Yes, I'm denying that. It's a sick accusation and totally false. You are bordering on slander.

Here's the bottom line: No matter what you try to accuse me of, Tommy has still been arrested and charged. You can't change that. Deal with it.

[uncovering truth]

Yes, I'm denying that. It's a sick accusation and totally false. You are bordering on slander.

Here's the bottom line: No matter what you try to accuse me of, Tommy has still been arrested and charged. You can't change that. Deal with it.

It is rather a rich accusation that you are accusing someone else of slander. I, nor anyone else, are accusing you of anything, no one is judging. We are all merely wondering about the circumstances of your situation and the incongruity of certain details as presented by you. This is not a question of Tommy, as much as you want to divert it to that. And, as far as sick accusations, how do you justify your constant public vilification of another human being? We hear a lot of it from Bob and that raises questions as well. I dare say that the only one in need of dealing with anything would be you two. God will bear Tommy through this. I am not sure He can help you until you give your anger up to Him and allow him to heal your heart.

[dclem]

Yes, I'm denying that. It's a sick accusation and totally false. You are bordering on slander.

Here's the bottom line: No matter what you try to accuse me of, Tommy has still been arrested and charged. You can't change that. Deal with it.

It is rather a rich accusation that you are accusing someone else of slander. I, nor anyone else, are accusing you of anything, no one is judging. We are all merely wondering about the circumstances of your situation and the incongruity of certain details as presented by you. This is not a question of Tommy, as much as you want to divert it to that. And, as far as sick accusations, how do you justify your constant public vilification of another human being? We hear a lot of it from Bob and that raises questions as well. I dare say that the only one in need of dealing with anything would be you two. God will bear Tommy through this. I am not sure He can help you until you give your anger up to Him and allow him to heal your heart.

You are insinuating that I am a homosexual. I am not, nor have I ever been. It's interesting that Ronnie Shelton has made the same insinuations.

Details? LOL! You think I'm going to give you any details other than what I have already posted? I don't even know for sure who you are. You seem to think that I'm afraid of the possibility of having to testify in court. Sorry, but I'm actually looking FORWARD to it!

Anger? : sigh : I have said numerous times that God dealt with my anger issue long ago. You should let Tommy know that next time you talk to him. He needs to come up with something new.

This is classic Shelton. Bring up issues from someone's past and try to damage them with it. Sick, and totally un-Christlike.

[uncovering truth]

You are insinuating that I am a homosexual. I am not, nor have I ever been. It's interesting that Ronnie Shelton has made the same insinuations.

Details? LOL! You think I'm going to give you any details other than what I have already posted? I don't even know for sure who you are. You seem to think that I'm afraid of the possibility of having to testify in court. Sorry, but I'm actually looking FORWARD to it!

Anger? : sigh : I have said numerous times that God dealt with my anger issue long ago. You should let Tommy know that next time you talk to him. He needs to come up with something new.

This is classic Shelton. Bring up issues from someone's past and try to damage them with it. Sick, and totally un-Christlike.

I am not intimidated by your anger and contrary to your assertion other wise, your anger is very evident. As for insinuating anything about your sexual identity, that hasn't been done here, but voices from your past have raised the question, it has been at issue in the forums as well. As far as who I am, you know where I am from, that's enough to indicate the perspective I am arrive at this from. I have noticed that when you don't like what your hearing or it hits a little too close to home you start to accuse people of being from the Shelton family. Suffice it to say there is no connection what so ever. I never said you were afraid of testifying, you seem to jump to conclusions rather easily, probably as a means to try and gather information. I merely asked you if you would testify under oath (which doesn't have to occur in court), this would lend credibility to your words or take it from them, depending on your answer. There are incongruities in the facts of your situation, your words, and your actions, any reasonable person would seek to clear these up. You are unwilling to aide in this, so be it. I've never talked to Tommy, have no way to do so now, so you will have to pass this on yourself.

One last thing, you said, "Bring up issues from someone's past and try to damage them with it. Sick, and totally un-Christlike." I am sure I am not the only one who will read that and marvel at the level of hypocrisy in your words.

[dclem]

You are insinuating that I am a homosexual. I am not, nor have I ever been. It's interesting that Ronnie Shelton has made the same insinuations.

Details? LOL! You think I'm going to give you any details other than what I have already posted? I don't even know for sure who you are. You seem to think that I'm afraid of the possibility of having to testify in court. Sorry, but I'm actually looking FORWARD to it!

Anger? : sigh : I have said numerous times that God dealt with my anger issue long ago. You should let Tommy know that next time you talk to him. He needs to come up with something new.

This is classic Shelton. Bring up issues from someone's past and try to damage them with it. Sick, and totally un-Christlike.

I am not intimidated by your anger and contrary to your assertion other wise, your anger is very evident. As for insinuating anything about your sexual identity, that hasn't been done here, but voices from your past have raised the question, it has been at issue in the forums as well. As far as who I am, you know where I am from, that's enough to indicate the perspective I am arrive at this from. I have noticed that when you don't like what your hearing or it hits a little too close to home you start to accuse people of being from the Shelton family. Suffice it to say there is no connection what so ever. I never said you were afraid of testifying, you seem to jump to conclusions rather easily, probably as a means to try and gather information. I merely asked you if you would testify under oath (which doesn't have to occur in court), this would lend credibility to your words or take it from them, depending on your answer. There are incongruities in the facts of your situation, your words, and your actions, any reasonable person would seek to clear these up. You are unwilling to aide in this, so be it. I've never talked to Tommy, have no way to do so now, so you will have to pass this on yourself.

One last thing, you said, "Bring up issues from someone's past and try to damage them with it. Sick, and totally un-Christlike." I am sure I am not the only one who will read that and marvel at the level of hypocrisy in your words.

It is impossible to be intimidated by my anger. There is none. I'm not here to intimidate anyone. I'm here to answer false acccusations and disgusting insinuations, some of which you have made.

Voices from my past? Please, surely you can do better than that. You claim to be from MN and now you want me to believe you have talked to someone who hass some dirt on me? LOL. You've got so many story lines going you can't remember them all.

For the record, I never accused you of being a Shelton. I merely stated a fact that you are using a classic Shelton tactic. You got really touchy about it, too. Hmmm...

I will testify to the truth, under oath, any time, any where. I just won't answer questions from someone who feels the need to cower and hide while asking them.

[Cynthia]

Admin intervention--
I am very uncomfortable with the way this discussion is going. You are both new here so I am going to try and explain what the problems I see here are from an administrative point of view and then maybe the discussion can continue in a rational manner and within our forum standards and rules. If so, maybe this can be resolved or at least the parties can come to some kind of understanding regarding where each are coming from, and why they feel the way they do, even if both end up agreeing to disagree. If not, it's not going to continue.

"I don't even know for sure who you are."
"I just won't answer questions from someone who feels the need to cower and hide while asking them."

This forum does require a working email address but we, like the majority of forums on the internet, do not require our members to post with their legal or given name, or to supply it on demand.

3. User name
You agree to not register with a lewd, profane or otherwise objectionable or offensive name. You also agree not to impersonate, harass, or spoof members, private individuals, or public figures with your chosen login name.

We will not allow any member to be ridiculed or insulted because of that, as was done in the example. (The only time a member's identity may be challenged here by other members is if they are claiming to be a first person witness to something they say, as other members may ask them how they know, how it can be proven etc. If they can't or won't explain. Then they aren't allowed to bring it up again.)


-----------------------------------------------------------------

"It's interesting that Ronnie Shelton has made the same insinuations...This is classic Shelton. Bring up issues from someone's past and try to damage them with it. Sick, and totally un-Christlike."

"For the record, I never accused you of being a Shelton. I merely stated a fact that you are using a classic Shelton tactic. You got really touchy about it, too. Hmmm..."

Cut it out. We don't do that here. "If you want to do Junior High, there are other sites that will meet your needs better than this one"

1. Courtesy
You agree that you will be courteous and respectful to other members, even when strongly disagreeing with them, and even to those whose beliefs and views you think are false or objectionable. Ad hominems are subject to edit or removal. Please post about and to others in a way that you yourself would not object to being posted about or to, even if strongly disagreeing with the subject matter or the issue, or what is said about or to you.

5. Topics and Thread content
You agree to stay within the topic and address those issues and questions only while participating in that thread...

I don't have time to itemize all the insults and ad hominems ---meaning personal criticisms and attacks, insinuated or otherwise, which aren't supported, nor on topic and which are not necessary to the discussion here.--- But, stop posting them from now on, or I will start editing your posts and take whatever other measures that are warranted.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

"Details? LOL! You think I'm going to give you any details other than what I have already posted? "
"I'm here to answer false acccusations and disgusting insinuations, some of which you have made."
"I just won't answer questions from someone who feels the need to cower and hide while asking them."

Which is it dclem? Make up your mind. You WILL be given courtesy and respect and your legit questions, such as "voices from my past?", will be answered. That's the way we operate here so you need to give others that same courtesy and respect. Deal with the topic which brought you here and answer the legit questions asked of you, or you won't be posting here anymore.

2 Disruptive behavior
You agree not to disrupt or interfere with discussions, forums, or other community functions. This includes manipulation of topics; whether by excessive bumping of topics, posting off topic in threads to bury issues under discussion, refusing to answer questions or issues raised, repeating what you have previously posted without addressing the posted questions or concerns that caused, bringing up a pet issue you may have in multiple threads, or carrying disagreements from one topic to multiple topics and threads. These are just a few examples which may be considered disruptive behavior. The Moderation Team reserves the right to collaboratively make a decision when this issue arises.

5. Topics and Thread content
You agree to stay within the topic and address those issues and questions only while participating in that thread. When tangential issues or topics arise in the course of a thread, you agree to start a new thread if it is warranted. Topics, which sometimes move to other issues naturally due to ongoing discussion, may be split at the discretion of the Moderation Team. Posts which seem to be deliberately posted off topic to evade, divert from, change the subject, or in order to bury it, will be removed and if necessary, the member may be disciplined.

Admin intervention done--

ok, let's move on now...
please.

[Cynthia]

As for insinuating anything about your sexual identity, that hasn't been done here, but voices from your past have raised the question, it has been at issue in the forums as well.

Voices from my past? Please, surely you can do better than that. .. you want me to believe you have talked to someone who hass some dirt on me?

I didn't see any one saying that they had talked to someone, or anyone. It would be helpful, if instead of jumping to conclusions,, we could just ask one another, "What do you mean by that?" or "what is this referring to?"

I don't know what T.I. meant or referred to, but one voice from your past which comes to my mind is Glenn Dryden, and the source of that information is you, Duane, and of course Bob Pickle as you gave it to him to publish on his and Joy's website.

Here are the quotes from you on their website:
( I have highlighted the part (where you yourself brought the question up by claiming he had accused you) with red)

Duane Clem in Shock
...

His Personal Message on BlackSDA.com (Used with Permission)

Personal Message

3abn, Dryden, etc., Dec 29 2006, 10:54 PM

I am Roger Clem's oldest brother and a former member of the Ezra Church of God congregation, under both Tommy Shelton's and Glenn Dryden's tenures as pastor. Let me begin by saying that I am extremely angry about the amount of information that you are plastering all over the internet, especially about something that is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

Your "informant", Glenn Dryden, is not a credible source of information. He also made some hideous accusations against me a few years back. They were for the same reason as the ones he is leveling against Tommy Shelton: JEALOUSY. Glenn Dryden is a spiteful, vindictive backstabber when someone crosses him. He has done this with numerous people over the past several years, and took the Ezra Church of God down nearly to the point of closure. I had to threaten him with legal action myself to get him to shut his mouth.

You reference that Roger has two brothers. I am one of them. This makes it MY business. You also reference my late mother as being a strong supporter of Tommy Shelton. You have no right to speak of me or my family. As far as I know, I've never met you. Who do you think you are?

You are advised to cease this manner of posting at once. In addition, this is a PRIVATE message to you. It had certainly better stay that way.

If you wish to discuss this further (in a civil manner), you may contact me privately. Otherwise, don't mention my name.

His Email to Pastor Glenn Dryden (Used with Permission)

-------- Original Message --------
From: Duane Clem
To: Glenn Dryden
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 06:44:54 +0000

Let this serve as a warning. If you mention my name in any of the letters and emails you're sending to anyone in your latest attack on Tommy Shelton, you WILL regret it.

Duane Clem

Duane Continues to Maintain That What Walt Was Told About Dryden's Jealousy Is True

-------- Original Message --------
From: Duane Clem
Subject: Re: Glenn Dryden, Tommy Shelton, etc.
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 07:08:13 +0000

...

To date, I have never spoken with Dr. Walt Thompson regarding this issue, nor at any other time as best I can recall. I will say that I agree with what the unnamed individual from the Church of God reportedly told Dr. Thompson, but it was NOT me, and I can honestly say I have no idea who it was. That's one issue you can finally put to rest.

...

You say Glenn Dryden made some hideous accusations against you several years back (2004 ?) In the context of a discussion of his accusations against Tommy Shelton. What were they, Duane? Did he accuse you of homosexual behavior, or did he accuse you of molesting children? OR-- was it something else? You brought this question up yourself by saying what you did. The letter from you to him threatening him says "If you mention my name in any of the letters and emails you're sending to anyone in your latest attack on Tommy Shelton, you WILL regret it." That also seems to support the idea that he accused you of the same things as he did Tommy.

Only you can explain this here and try and set the record straight. Do you want to do that?

I understand that you said his motive in accusing you was the same as the one which motivated him to accuse Tommy, ie, jealousy. I accept that, but at the same time he had accusations/allegations he drug up from Tommy's past (even though they were allegedly already investigated by his church and local police and all resolved in the past also), to accuse him with. It seems unlikely he would accuse you too without at least having some accusations/allegations against you to drag up and to base his hideous accusations against you on, also. So, I'm sorry, but this causes questions about that, and your past, Duane.

It would be helpful if you could answer and explain. Not just to us, but for yourself.

[dclem]

So, let me get this straight. insinusting that I'm a homosexual as "uncovering truth" did, or insinuating that I might be a child molestor as YOU did, is simply trying to get facts and answer questions, but confronting those allegations is intimidating and ridiculing another member?

...