Now Greg, Do you agree this kind of writing should not be termed Catholic bashing? If SDA's made up things about the CC and spread nasty rumors and hearsay and gossip then this would be an attack mode and would be in my opinion Catholic bashing. SDA's realize that God has people in ALL churches, so do not point fingers at individuals but at the institution.
In my personal opinion, those who preach that Jesuits have infiltrated the SDA Chruch and who wish to tar Bob PIckle with that label are engaging in what you have stated in your second senence above.
NOTE: I am wiling to acknoweldge that there are people in this forum who have posted on that and have not directly stated that Jesuists have infiltrated the sDA Chruch and have not directly stated that Bob PIckle is a Jesuist.
Then again, that's my view, my opinion... so choose not to look it all up and not to agree that we have wolves in sheep's clothing within our church. . ..
It is a documented fact that in the days of the Soviet Union government agents were placed within the organized SDA Chruch. Iacknowledge that as do knowledgeable historians.
It is a documented fact that in the time of Hitler problems arose within a segment of German Advenntism. Historians today are only beginning to get an udnerstanding of that.
It is a documented fact that growing our of Rawanda a SDA leader was charged by the United Nations, extridated from the USA and stood trial before a court of law for genocide.
I am aware of what history tells us about the Jesuits. But, there is not documentation that Jesuists have ever infiltrated the SDA Chruch. That idea is not built upon good evidence or good logic.
What I think about Bob PIckle should not be the issue. Even if he were the agent of the devil, that would not mean he was a Jesuit agent.
Of course, all of the above is my opinion. I do not know if my post here will be my last post as I might be banned from posting here. It is clearly your right to ban me if you chose. I acdept that if you do.
Cindy essentially,as I understand her, askes us to consider what is a Seventh-day Adventist?
My answer would be that a SDA:
1) Is a person who has joined the Seventh-day Adventist denominstion. It is from this perspective that I and others suggest that there are at least five different groups within the SDA Chruch.
2) Is a person who has accepted the 13 doctrinal statements of the Baptisimal Vows. NOTE: This is not the same as the 27 doctrinal statememts/
To those who say that a SDA is someone who accepts the origonal beliefs of the pioneers of the SDA Church, I would say:
1) EGW clearly told us that God would lead us in our doctrinal beliefs and we did not know it all.
2) The origonal beliefs have to be defined in a time framework. They did not remain the same at all times. Some would relate them to the so-called Sabbath Conferences. Some would relate them to the following five: Sabbath, Sanctuary, Soul Sleep, Spirit of Prophecy and the Second Advent. NOTE: These five leave a lot uncovered in current doctrinal discussions.
3) The SDA Church of today has to deal with doctrinal and life style issues that our early pioneers did not face. We cannot go back to them for answers.
Greg, you seem to insinuate that people here are calling BP a Jesuit and tell them how wrong it is to do so, then your turn around and say that you realize no one here has called BP a Jesuit. My point is why bother to post these kinds of statments when you have really said nothing. I can see why the administration seems to be getting more and more frustrated with your posts.
I will agree with you the time you said no one here has called Pickle a Jesuit. BUT it doesn't make any difference if BP is an official Jesuit or not. At least he should be given Honorary Jesuit status by the vatican for the work of division and destruction that he is committed himself to do in the SDA movement.
Have you heard the term AntiChrist Spirit? One doesn't have to be THE AntiChrist spoken of in the bible to have an AntiChrist Spirit. If one is anti--Christ then he is doing the work of the devil reguardless of what he calls himself.
It is not wrongly judging Pickle to say that he is one the side opposite of Christ at this point in his life. Jesus would never make people's sins public. In fact He did just the opposite. Jesus knew every sin of the woman at the well, but he did not start a newspaper, or call any media that would listen and expose the womans sins! And you know what? He could have because the Son of God DID know the womans sins. He would not have been misjudging her or just spreading gossip that seemed to be truth to Him..He could have spilled the woman at the well's sins publically. Do you remember when leaders were condemning the woman and Jesus condemned the accusers and told the woman to go and sin no more.
But he didn't make it His life's work on earth to expose the Scribes and Pharasee's and other wicked leaders. Jesus said His peace to them and moved on..... He also knew their hearts and found them wicked, yet continued to heal the sick and be about His Fathers work of salvation to a lost and dying world.
Pickle is not Jesus. He does not know the heart of any man. He himself is a sinner. Therefore has no business judging others with his limited knowledge of their sins.
Greg if you can't figure that out I have to doubt that you should be in a capacity to be a Chaplin. Spiritually speaking this is first grade theology!
Pickles work is divisive and destructive. How long should Pickle as a professed Christian continue to forsake his family, his friends, his church, his work etc...?
Seven years after the divorce he is still telling lies about things he knows nothing of. He could not testify in court as an eye witness because he hasn't seen anything for himself. He doesn't even know the parties that he devotes his life to talking about.
He got the attention of the IRS but when push came to shove they saw he knew nothing about what was going on financially at 3ABN and walked away without DS or 3ABN having to pay a penny!
I have posted as I have done in regard to Pickle being a Jesuit becaus[e the question was raised as to whether or not he is a Jesuit without directly stating that he is one.
You paint a picture of Pickle and tell me that if I can't figure it out. . . . I have never taken a pukblic position, one way or another on the issues that your raise. I have been silent because I have limited my public comments to a very narrow part of this discussion. Please do not assume myk ability, or lack of ability, to figure something out in an area where I have never given enough public comments for you to determine where I am.
If I were to agree with everything that you have said about Bob Pickle I would still take great umberage at any suggestion that he might be a Jesuit. I would post exactly as I hve posted here. I call it as I see it. Regardless of whether or not Bob Pickle is guilty of the things that you say about him, in my opinion, such guilt does not justify any implication that he might be a Jesuist.
Well, the quesiton as to whether or not Bob Pickle is a Jesuit has come full circle. He has now asked if it might be possible that Danny is one! No, he has not directly stated that Danny is a Jesuit.
In resposne, I have posted the following:
The idea/suggestion that Danny is a Jusuit is as much nonsense (garbage) as is the idea that you might be one. In my opinion, it should be as much beneath your dignity to ask if anyone has considered such about Danny as it should be beneath the dignity of others to ask that about you.
My feelings as to whether or not a SDA is a Jesuit are equally strong whether the person named is Bob PIckle or Danny Shelton.
Greg, while your posts may show you are trying not to be partial to any one particular side, there is always right and wrong when it comes to spiritual values. You seem to ignore the main issue on this subject. You continue to say BP is not a Jesuit and now you say DS is not. It's been said on here before, it doesn't make any difference
if BP is a Jesuit or not. It's obvious to most that He and Joy are doing more, I should say trying, to divide and destroy the unity and mission of this church which 3ABN is also committed to promoting, than probably any other factions in the history of the church
Let me try one last example you might understand. It will be very simple in nature: Le'ts say that BP works for Ford motor com. And lets say he works in the marketing department. His mission of course is to place positive info about Ford to the public. Maybe he even came up the great marketing idea of "Have you driven a Ford lately?Now let's say that he thought he had information that was negative about some of the people in administration or that he didn't like something about a certain vehicle his company promotes as the best in the world. BP also starts 1 or maybe 17 web sites all writing negative things about Ford and contacts any and all media that will listen to him dogging Ford.
Question: How long do you think it would take for Ford to consider him an enemy and fire him? My point. Some people that work for Ford begin to suggest that he really works undercover for Toyota. They don't come right out and accuse him of working for Toyota but they throw it out there for "discussion. Let me ask you, Did BP do the same damage to the integrity of Ford whether or not he worked undercover for Toyota? Absolutely! The damage is done to the integrity of Ford. He may continue to talk about how he loves Ford and is committed to Ford but he felt he had to go public with info because he was sure there was some mis-management going on.
In this case he would have done the same or worse damage than one of Ford competitors who hired someone to go undercover and put out false info about Ford.
Now lets go back to the Spiritual side for a moment. BP and GJ tried to win their case by going to the people in the pews. That didn't work so they tried contacting as many church leaders as possible to bring down DS and 3ABN but that didn't work. My question at this point may be...At what point should they shake the dust from their feet and move on to the business of soul winning? Nearly seven years of their lives wasted. It seems they have invested so much of their lives to destroying 3ABN only to see their efforts many years later, bringing the church and 3ABN together. The IRS investigation worked out for the good of DS and 3ABN. It removed all doubt from church leaders about all the accusations from BP and Joy. AND it showed the true character of these guys when after crying how terrible to be sued by 3ABN that when 3ABN drops the case, BP and Joy keep it going for years and meanwhile threatening laws suits themselves and encouraging other like LS who sued DS after the divorce and who encourages anyone with a "beef" against DS and 3ABN to sue them also.
Greg, it hasn't seemed to occur to these guys, and maybe you, that now church leaders want to distance themselves as far as possible from them because should they not agree with them they too will see B/J coming after them with vengeance. The bible says that all things work together for good to them that love God and are called according to His purpose.
The whole saga is proof that this scripture is true! Did you see the interview with SDA world President with DS,JG and CA last Thursday night? If there was any doubt about the success of P and J's campaign to destroy DS and 3ABN, it went out the window. 3ABN's support from the world church is at an all time time in the nearly 27 years history of the ministry!
Isa. 8:20 says try the Spirits. 3ABN is promoting the gospel to the world. PJ are in the business of destoying the work of the church. Yes, the mission of the SDA church and the mission of 3ABN are one in the same. By trying to bring down 3ABN they are also doing damage to the SDA church. Who is fulfilling the mission of the church and endorsed by the world leader 3ABN or P/J?