Lying, sin , casting stones, and judgment?

[odie1962]

As for the mess this has developed into, It should never have reached the depth it has.
That could have been stopped by the two main players in this,namely LS and DS. I don't think the surface reason for the lawsuit is necessarily true. We have some mighty big egos running around.
Had LS and DS held 3ABN in the same level of importance that the honest supporters of both sides did, it would not have ended up at this level. With many sincere from both sides becoming enemies.

I know how an something like this can be kept going. I first started searching the internet for information to help my son and granddaughters and then it morphed into something bigger.
At the point I realized how frequent his experience was within the SDA denomination ,I had no intention of dropping it and fading away. Had it been my decision to let it go it would have faded into oblivion. At first it was helping my son and then the contacts kept coming of others that had gone thru this or far worse. What I could not understand is this kind of wanton destruction was treated with a yawn that kept getting bigger and bigger. Others that had suffered much worse did not want to see it fade. Many thought finally.
What kept it from fading was myself and others. What would have stopped our situation in it's tracks is silence. I think DS is well aware of this and does not care to have it quietly fade into the night. Nor do I believe LS wants it to fade.
Bob and Gailon's vendetta or whatever it is would have been starved to death without the support of many. 3ABN would never have attracted the attention it did if "gossip" was their true fear and not helped to live by 3ABN supporters.

It is a given each side will have it's supporters willing to lash out at the other side but that could have been curbed with just a few of the words both DS and LS have used to show such righteous motives online.


Even those of Bob's and Gailon's bent need fuel to keep going. That was provided by others and could have been stopped by DS and LS.

[odie1962]

Synthian - thanks for taking the time to give this long and detailed explanation regarding the horses. This information is long overdue.

What you have written reinforces what I have thought, which, succinctly, is that in all the emails Danny is making inquiries about getting a tax deduction for donating the horse or horses, but never has a splinter of evidence been presented that a deduction was ever taken.

Penny,

Most that have a plan to circumvent the IRS will have a change of heart if that plan is signalled to the internet world and beyond

[Cynthia]

Synthian - thanks for taking the time to give this long and detailed explanation regarding the horses. This information is long overdue.

What you have written reinforces what I have thought, which, succinctly, is that in all the emails Danny is making inquiries about getting a tax deduction for donating the horse or horses, but never has a splinter of evidence been presented that a deduction was ever taken.

Hi Penny, big smile at hearing from you again..

The truth is Pickle and others actually admit no cash deduction was taken, they admit that nothing was done illegally.

Their only argument has been that Danny intended to do so intentionally and knowing it was illegal, and that Linda prevented him from acting as he wanted and intended to. Their POV , and presentation is that his emails to her prove he had an evil motive and is corrupt but that is based on their unproven assertion that he knew exactly what he was doing and saying with prior knowledge that this couldn't be done legally.

Problem is they only say that, but they have zero evidence or proof to support that preposition. That idea and premise is only their wishful thinking to suit their own preconceived judgments and opinions, and what they want others to believe.

But.. as I tried to portray, Danny's inquiries to his own accountant, prove he didn't know,(why would he even bother to ask if he already knew? especially as his accountant would not then file anything illegally for him? That makes no sense! ) DS's subsequent actions and the tax records in accord with what he was told by his accountant prove that Pickle is absolutely deluded to me.

blessings...

[Cynthia]

Synthian - thanks for taking the time to give this long and detailed explanation regarding the horses. This information is long overdue.

What you have written reinforces what I have thought, which, succinctly, is that in all the emails Danny is making inquiries about getting a tax deduction for donating the horse or horses, but never has a splinter of evidence been presented that a deduction was ever taken.

Penny,

Most that have a plan to circumvent the IRS will have a change of heart if that plan is signalled to the internet world and beyond

Whle that may be true, it doesn't even apply here. and that is a bonafide fact easilly proved. I would suggest very strongly, that if you wish to hold this idea or post about it again, you come up with at least one thing on the internet which is dated to support this unsupported idea and theory...

Pickle was the first to ever bring up the horsey stories on the internet. BUT it wasn't even close to his first issues and allegations, and he NEVER EVER posted on any 3abn issues issues till Aug of 2006, and that was at least 2 years after the events, including discussions about the donated horses and tax forms in question were ever filed...

I know I am being blunt, but sometimes that is needed.

Truth is truth, and "I don't care" doesn't work for me after bringing any issue up for consideration, sorry.

People who don't care, usually say nothing.

..ian

[odie1962]

Whle that may be true, it doesn't even apply here. and that is a bonafide fact easilly proved. I would suggest very strongly, that if you wish to hold this idea or post about it again, you come up with at least one thing on the internet which is dated to support this unsupported idea and theory...

Pickle was the first to ever bring it up on the internet. he NEVER posted on these issues till Aug of 2006, and that was at least 2 years after the events, including discussions about the donated horses and tax forms in question were ever filed...

truth is truth, and "I don't care" doesn't work after bringing an issue up for considertion, sorry.

..ian

Ian,

I brought this up what is a small incidence to some as my reason for mistrust of DS. There are some if not most that will never be proven to be fact by both sides.
The strongest reasn I have for mistrusting DS actually comes from himself or about him thru those that support. Unlike many I do believe the IRS investigation is finished. What I don't believe happened is the singling DS out for special consideration. As an apology by the IRS, if you can locate a qualified source, one that has absolutely no ax to grind in this, ask them about the possiblity of the iRS given an apology for an audit. They cannot for legal reasons. Whatever prompted this investigation was more than someone calling up and saying they think DS is cheating.
They need to have a pretty good reason, something that is flagging their interest to spend the time and the money that is involved in a investigation of this magnitude..

DS ducks comments or questions by saying the IRS told him not to talk about it. Poppycock,the IRS cannot prevent you from talking about your own finances or audit. At least not yet.

But, I really don't care at this point how he came out.

[Cynthia]

Whle that may be true, it doesn't even apply here. and that is a bonafide fact easilly proved. I would suggest very strongly, that if you wish to hold this idea or post about it again, you come up with at least one thing on the internet which is dated to support this unsupported idea and theory...

Pickle was the first to ever bring it up on the internet. he NEVER posted on these issues till Aug of 2006, and that was at least 2 years after the events, including discussions about the donated horses and tax forms in question were ever filed...

truth is truth, and "I don't care" doesn't work after bringing an issue up for considertion, sorry.

..ian

Ian,

I brought this up what is a small incidence to some as my reason for mistrust of DS. There are some if not most that will never be proven to be fact by both sides.
The strongest reason I have for mistrusting DS actually comes from himself or about him thru those that support. Unlike many I do believe the IRS investigation is finished. What I don't believe happened is the singling DS out for special consideration. As an apology by the IRS, if you can locate a qualified source, one that has absolutely no ax to grind in this, ask them about the possiblity of the iRS given an apology for an audit. They cannot for legal reasons. Whatever prompted this investigation was more than someone calling up and saying they think DS is cheating.
They need to have a pretty good reason, something that is flagging their interest to spend the time and the money that is involved in a investigation of this magnitude..

DS ducks comments or questions by saying the IRS told him not to talk about it. Poppycock,the IRS cannot prevent you from talking about your own finances or audit. At least not yet.

Odie,

You are changing the subject. We were discussing horses, now you are talking about the IRS investigation instead.

Let's not do that, please.

Also, you claim: "The strongest reason I have for mistrusting DS actually comes from himself" and then you claim "DS ducks comments or questions by saying the IRS told him not to talk about it. "

I personally know this is not true, but this isn't my argument or assertion, IT"S YOURS, and as such and as you claim you are only going by what has been posted publicly and by what you claim he has said and done publicly and what you have got from him and only come from himself?

Well then, with all due respect.. please prove it!! quote him, and cite your source please, because this rationalizing and justifying beyond and apart from what can, and has been proven and established , and this changing the subject, before concluding the old one, is both old and weak, and helps none.

But, I really don't care at this point how he came out.

Again, as is obvious , people who don't care, or don't want to argue about those things, prove that best by not doing so, or by not even bringing those things up...

Problem is, I do care about truth, and I do care about all those involved, it would be so much easier if I did not. Because I care about them, on both sides btw, and you too, here I am still answering, although sick to death of this topic...

..ian

[odie1962]

Everybody needs to take a look around and think long and hard about the hard feelings and behaviour that has been as a result of two people. Two people that have professed so much.

Look at adventtalk. I know many of you have had some pretty harsh treatment by whoever is running the show. The mistrust and the anger by those professing such godliness. The forum makes one think of gasping the last gasp. Unless it is Bob and Gailon whipping things up very few can think beyond that. Some that would have posted in other area's and kept it going have seen what happens when Bob and Gailon are crosses.That doesn't make anyone feel like interacting with anyone else there.
Even pm's to Bob or Gailon will get you banned. Many would have liked an alternative to the forums currently out there and believed that adventtalk would be. That has placed a damper on most congenial interaction. It will remain to be seen if that can be pulled back. The level of mistrust since Daryl told a conference official that he was not the owner of adventtalk will remain. I wonder how that conversation came about?
I have seen same happen on this side of the aisle. I will have to give credit that there are those here in admin that make every effort to be fair.
I realize that this forum was specifically launched for one purpose. The truth is if we could all get on the same page it would be one more SDA venue. One more outreach. Instead of a smack upside the head.

I can't see myself ever in support of DS and 3ABN under him. In fairness I am cynical about most televangelists. It is more common than not to come to the conclusion they are convinced they walk on water.
I don't care if you(general) support him. No one here or on adventtalk will change the conclusion of this. If not stopped by someone the courts will decide. Let the courts decide and let Bob and Gailon to themselves. They will soon bore each other to death.

Stop helping them to make more enemies. 3ABN membersstop helping DS and others to keep this alive. No, I don't mean that DS has requested such in a literal way,but I do believe he is quite pleased to be the center of so much attention. What you can stop/prevent/minimize and you don't is something you are willing to let happen

[Cynthia]

Everybody needs to take a look around and think long and hard about the hard feelings and behaviour that has been as a result of two people. Two people that have professed so much.

Look at adventtalk. I know many of you have had some pretty harsh treatment by whoever is running the show. The mistrust and the anger by those professing such godliness. The forum makes one think of gasping the last gasp. Unless it is Bob and Gailon whipping things up very few can think beyond that. Some that would have posted in other area's and kept it going have seen what happens when Bob and Gailon are crosses.That doesn't make anyone feel like interacting with anyone else there.
Even pm's to Bob or Gailon will get you banned. Many would have liked an alternative to the forums currently out there and believed that adventtalk would be. That has placed a damper on most congenial interaction. It will remain to be seen if that can be pulled back. The level of mistrust since Daryl told a conference official that he was not the owner of adventtalk will remain. I wonder how that conversation came about?
I have seen same happen on this side of the aisle. I will have to give credit that there are those here in admin that make every effort to be fair.
I realize that this forum was specifically launched for one purpose. The truth is if we could all get on the same page it would be one more SDA venue. One more outreach. Instead of a smack upside the head.

I can't see myself ever in support of DS and 3ABN under him. In fairness I am cynical about most televangelists. It is more common than not to come to the conclusion they are convinced they walk on water.
I don't care if you(general) support him. No one here or on adventtalk will change the conclusion of this. If not stopped by someone the courts will decide. Let the courts decide and let Bob and Gailon to themselves. They will soon bore each other to death.

Stop helping them to make more enemies. 3ABN membersstop helping DS and others to keep this alive. No, I don't mean that DS has requested such in a literal way,but I do believe he is quite pleased to be the center of so much attention. What you can stop/prevent/minimize and you don't is something you are willing to let happen

Ok, but every disagreement starts with two, and sometimes both are wrong, sometimes both are partially right or wrong, etc.. sometimes one is totally wrong and the other right. it excuses or justifies none who join in... Facts evidence and proof due to diligent examination needs to be established, and that is actually biblical and christian.

You believe a man you have never met or conversed with is quite pleased to be the center of attention, but don't know the tears, heartache or stress, or embaressment this has all caused him as those who know him do, neither do you offer any proof or evidence to support your negative judgment of him, even tho you say it comes from himself, so WHY would you and your personal opinions be credible to me who has met him , much less any other, unless it suits their own personal bias and what they choose to believe evil about another without needing any proof?

I don't know! I am a moderator here, but I refuse to, and actually can't moderate this discussion as I am involved in it, but I am gonna strongly warn you about posting any further accusations, and allegations and conclusions which you can not support.

We don't do that here, sorry, the address for posting these kind of arguments and rationalizations without proof would be http://www.adventtalk,com. They welcome it.

I am done here.

sorry, odie.

..ian

[odie1962]

You are changing the subject. We were discussing horses, now you are talking about the IRS investigation instead.

Let's not do that, please.

I can see why you may think that, but for me it all comes under the heading of IRS.

Also, you claim: "The strongest reasn I have for mistrusting DS actually comes from himself" and then uou claim "DS ducks comments or questions by saying the IRS told him not to talk about it. "

I personally know this is not true, but this isn't my argument or assertion, IT"S YOURS, and as you are going by what has been posted publically and by what you claim he has said and done publically and what you have got from him and come from himself?

These are statments made at the time of the announcement that the investigation was over. Oviously not by hoping for far worse. If DS didn't say that or another 3ABN spokeman it would have been quite easy to clarify.

Well then, with all due respect.. please prove it, quote him, and cite your source please, because this rationlizing and justifying beyond and apart from what can be proven and established , and changing the subject, before concluding the old is both old and weak, and helps none.

Our family went thru a nightmare such as we have never faced before. After the noteriety,a lawsuit reaching the MN.Supreme court, a final victory, a victory all said was impossible in terms of truth, changing anyone's mind it was zilch, nada. It began initially for one reason but as time wnet on we became hopeful that it would really matter, really change hearts and minds concerning this issue.
After the dust settled, those that supported my son and our family still did,those that hated our family because of it still did and felt we were wrong,but the saddest of all. most people didn't and don't care about the issue. My grandchildren will always live with what happened as my son will. I ended up with a perforated ulcer for my trouble and everyone else goes along their merry way.
Not one thing has changed except my family. That is exactly what will happen here.

Again, as is obvious , people who don't care, or don't want to argue about those things, prove that best by not doing so, or by not even bringing those things up...

Problem is, I do care about truth, and I do care about all those involved, it would be so much easier if I did not.

..ian

I have gained a great deal of respect for you overtime. I do believe you care about the truth.You do stand your ground but so far with me you have been firm but fair. Understand when I say I don't care it is in terms of the outcome of this mess.
This forum or adventtalk are not going to influence the courts decision. After wards one side will be declaring victory the other a righteous martyrdom.


The enemies that have been made thru this will remain enemies . Some that I feel I have made because I could not support the nonesense from Bob and Gailon hurts,but so goes life. Are those that have enemies now instead of friendships going to change once this mess is done. I don't think so

Ian, You said care about truth. I believe that you do. I also don't believe that your caring is going to change much of anything in this mess. Not that you are wrong to care,just in the scheme of things it won't matter.

I have ended up mistrusting those that I never thought I would . At one time I held pastors and denominational employees in pretty high regard. Not that they could not make mistakes, but you somehow expect a little higher level of honesty and ethics. What I have found over the past few years, with the exception of a very limited few, there is more nastiness and underhandedness than in the general population.
I am of the opinion if asked what impact their choices have had on others you would even get a reply.

[Cynthia]

Fair enough, Odie. I also don't trust others easily as I believe that courtesy, or respect for a position is easily given and required of any christian, but I also believe that personal trust and respect are earned, (easily destroyed) and never a freebie, or a given....

So while we obviously disagree here in this particular discussion, can we just agree to disagree knowing that the truth will be established if not now then in future both despite and in spite of either of us?? Hellllooo? God is truth, he will reveal all, to all, in time... Because.. outside of these issues I do know and appreciate, that you are both my sister and my friend, and as such I love your sense of humor, and your fire, and your integrity, so I have zero hesitation in saying that publicly both in front of and to others.

And despite my own strong opinions and views and words, I also know and understand that this isn't really up to me to resolve or decide.

blessings.. and ((hugs))

..ian