Lying, sin , casting stones, and judgment?

[Donna]

God does not like Liars and yet there are still some who insist on the truth from others while they themselves perpetuate false rumors and allegations with no proof except for their own opinions. This too is lying in my opinion.




Moderator note -- moved from:
http://www.3atalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&p=674#p674

[odie1962]

This thread is about who owns Advent talk and while you have spoken well on the subject you still tend to confuse the issue as in the following statement:

Frankly I think this applies to not only DS and LS as well as others on the other side.

Here you spoke like you had been talking about those who are connected to 3ABN and those who defend it. Will you please clarify.

As for the key players in this on both sides,a" Pox on your house" comes to mind. The most unfortunate part is the sincere ones on either side.
In a ideal world LS and DS should have remained together instead of divorcing and being free to spread their "misery" to others. In an ideal world "crusaders" as Bob and Gailon should never have met and joined forces. If you want the real God's honest truth I think one is as evil as the next. That does not say all connected to 3ABN are cut from the same cloth amy more than those that sincerely felt there were serious issues with 3ABN should be placed in the same class as Bob and Gailon.


I may look at some of this differently,but works for me.


This whole thing is about as rotten as it gets. I know there are those that have reported issues concerning Bob and Gailon and the way they speak to others that disagree with their "gospel". I am wondering how it strikes most now to realize the complaints against them were possibly being read by same. I don't care a whit, I did report more than one example and nothing. It would be understandable now that is because someone else is picking up the tab besides Daryl. There is no other way to explain the failure of Daryl to make even token attempt at curbing these two.
The forum is getting less and less active. The two that love to run off at the mouth and be impressed by their own posts are almost as silent as all others.
Bob of course chimed in on this topic with his usual none answer and attempting to shift the topic from ownership to my "ugliness" There was nothing ugly about the question,except it more than likely leads to a very ugly answer.
I saw the same attempt by Johann to shift the topic and make it only a matter of rumor. I would have put Johann in a different class,but no longer.

Snoopy wanted to make it an ugly thing but no answer. If in fact if her claim of knowing the answer is true she is as dirty as Bob and Gailon.

I have seen some of the same tactics by 3ABN supporters over time. Not all as I have come to know a few of you and believe even if we disagree they are being honest.
Maybe that is more of an answer than you wanted,but DS and LS and Bob and Gailon IMO belong in the same swamp

[Donna]

If we are going to really be honest and especially with ourselves, we should see that we all, including you and me, belong in that same swamp. We are all sinners. As humans who have sinned we tend to look at sins as being different but according to God there is no difference in sins. Sin is sin. So then, who are any of us to say some belong in a swamp while we believe ourselves to be just fine? Who of us can cast that first stone and pass muster with God? How we judge others is how we will be judged so we should prayerfully consider all that we say and do and quit expecting perfection from any of our fellowmen. If we spent as much time praying for others as we do talking about them much more would be accomplished for God and them. One thing I have found is that you cannot help but love someone if your are praying for them. I believe that our Lord not only prayed to our Father for sustenence to make it through but was also praying for all of us. We haven't begun to realize the love God has shown and continues to show for us.

[odie1962]

1. If we are going to really be honest and especially with ourselves, we should see that we all, including you and me, belong in that same swamp. We are all sinners. As humans who have sinned we tend to look at sins as being different but according to God there is no difference in sins. Sin is sin. I think there is a vast difference betqween the ultimate fate of Satan and others. I believe that Hitler and his deliberate wanton cruelty and ordering the torture of millions will be more extreme than that of others.


I don't agree that all sin is the same,however any sin can cause a loss of salvation. I don't believe that according to God there is no difference. If that were so all would receive the same reward. Yes, we have all sinned,and with that often repeated phrase all that voice an objection, state an opinion are wrong in doing so as they surely have sinned as well.
When a pastor destroyed my son's life we all should have remained silent, after all my son and the rest of my family had sinned as well.

You may not like saying they all belong in the same swamp .If someone has tried ,sucessful or otherwise to tear down a ministry that many believe God has annointed,lied and caused gossip,he/she belongs in the swamp of liars. If what is said about DS/LS is true they are far more culpable than others.
Much is expected and called for by those that "profess much"




2. So then, who are any of us to say some belong in a swamp while we believe ourselves to be just fine? Who of us can cast that first stone and pass muster with God? How we judge others is how we will be judged so we should prayerfully consider all that we say and do and quit expecting perfection from any of our fellowmen. If we spent as much time praying for others as we do talking about them much more would be accomplished for God and them. One thing I have found is that you cannot help but love someone if your are praying for them. I believe that our Lord not only prayed to our Father for sustenence to make it through but was also praying for all of us. We haven't begun to realize the love God has shown and continues to show for us
You are inserting something I never said. It does not make it accurate. I did not say the rest of us" were just fine"
As for casting the first stone, everyone please lay down the stones they have used regarding Gailon and Bob. That should begin with those repeating that phrase.


For those that feel Bob and gailon are wrong and deliberately wrong many times, you need to back off and remember you have sinned as well. For those that believe all or part of DS/3ABN mess is true, back off and leave it alone. Certainly all that are involved in this mess have sinned. No one has a right to state(judge) another. No one has denied ...... If we spent as much time praying for others as we do talking about them much more would be accomplished for God and them,but when that comes in place of attempts to stop harmful behaviour and many times the loss of eternal life of others, we then become as guilty as those committing the act.

All have sinned is not an excuse for turning a blind eye.
All have sinned is not an excuse for not forming an opinion

Nothing we say or do is excused by "someone else is worse or as bad"
But that is what is being used here.

My cousin was a victim of the Green Riiver serial killer. His act did not wipe out any sin she may have committed,but neither can his act be viewed as "we have all sinned"
None of this says "all have not sinned",Nor does it say we are to lack an opinion or an attempt by those we see as deliberately time and time again committing that which will cause great harm to others.


I do not believe all sin is the same in God's eyes. One cherished sin we refuse to let go off, no matter how minor it seems can cause us to lose our salvation. But I believe that God will judge "according to our works"

[Cynthia]

God does not like Liars and yet there are still some who insist on the truth from others while they themselves perpetuate false rumors and allegations with no proof except for their own opinions. This too is lying in my opinion.

For what it's worth... I agree that perpetuating false rumors and allegations with no proof except for personal opinions is wrong and a lie, but I personally wouldn't refer to all as "liars" or call it lying. The reason for that being, to me that indicates that those doing so are deliberately and knowingly committing the act of bearing false witness. While I do agree that some in these discussions are bold faced liars, as they continue to repeat the falsehoods/lies despite being rebutted in their allegations and shown the evidence and proof. I can give some clear examples if needed, altho that is not my intention or purpose in addressing this topic, I just want to say in addition to those, many others do so because they are deceived, or confused into thinking the repetitious allegations are established facts. Propagandists know this to works, just repeat something often enough and others will begin to believe it is true. In my opinion this has happened quite a bit in the issues of contention about 3abn.

Frankly I think we could all avoid doing such if we just learned to "prove all things" and examine all sides and evidence diligently, and deal with specifics rather than with generalities.

For example; While I believe all have the right to form and hold their own opinions and judgments, I do not believe it is helpful in discussions, or resolves anything, to make such broad and sweeping statements as are being made here, and actually in most of the deiscussion and debate about 3abn.

I think we can all agree God does not like liars, but where we may differ is in how and who we apply the term to...

And while I believe this is true myself.

"there are still some who insist on the truth from others while they themselves perpetuate false rumors and allegations with no proof except for their own opinions."

I also think if said/posted specific examples such as quotes, and evidence to support it needs to accompany such a statement.

Bt the same token, I think most if not all would agree with the following also:

"God does not like liars.

The serial bully displays behaviour congruent with many of the diagnostic criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Characterised by a pervasive pattern of grandiosity and self-importance, need for admiration, and lack of empathy, people with narcissistic personality disorder overestimate their abilities and inflate their accomplishments, often appearing boastful and pretentious, whilst correspondingly underestimating and devaluing the achievements and accomplishments of others..."

In my view the problem comes in when it is applied to others without showing how it applies, such as in saying/posting:

"Frankly I think this applies to not only DS and LS as well as others on the other side."

Because while entitled to think that, what is missing again are the specific examples, and evidence to back up the conclusion and judgment. We have the who, and the what, but are missing, how, why, and where...

Same thing with the following statement:

"In a ideal world LS and DS should have remained together instead of divorcing and being free to spread their "misery" to others."

When either side say things like this, it always seems to cause the other to become indignant, defensive or to challenge it, as that is not what they "think", but that is rather hard to do when they is no specific instance or application to address. In the above example, most likely both would respond in disagreement.

Anyway that's my 2 cents and one of the reasons we have the policy about either explaining with evidence when such things are said, or not repeating such things until that can be done.

I "think" (smile) most here want to get to the truth and resolve issues by getting to the root of things, and clarifying them.

..ian

[Cynthia]

1. If we are going to really be honest and especially with ourselves, we should see that we all, including you and me, belong in that same swamp. We are all sinners. As humans who have sinned we tend to look at sins as being different but according to God there is no difference in sins. Sin is sin. I think there is a vast difference betqween the ultimate fate of Satan and others. I believe that Hitler and his deliberate wanton cruelty and ordering the torture of millions will be more extreme than that of others.


I don't agree that all sin is the same,however any sin can cause a loss of salvation. I don't believe that according to God there is no difference. If that were so all would receive the same reward. Yes, we have all sinned,and with that often repeated phrase all that voice an objection, state an opinion are wrong in doing so as they surely have sinned as well.
When a pastor destroyed my son's life we all should have remained silent, after all my son and the rest of my family had sinned as well.

You may not like saying they all belong in the same swamp .If someone has tried ,sucessful or otherwise to tear down a ministry that many believe God has annointed,lied and caused gossip,he/she belongs in the swamp of liars. If what is said about DS/LS is true they are far more culpable than others.
Much is expected and called for by those that "profess much"




2. So then, who are any of us to say some belong in a swamp while we believe ourselves to be just fine? Who of us can cast that first stone and pass muster with God? How we judge others is how we will be judged so we should prayerfully consider all that we say and do and quit expecting perfection from any of our fellowmen. If we spent as much time praying for others as we do talking about them much more would be accomplished for God and them. One thing I have found is that you cannot help but love someone if your are praying for them. I believe that our Lord not only prayed to our Father for sustenence to make it through but was also praying for all of us. We haven't begun to realize the love God has shown and continues to show for us
You are inserting something I never said. It does not make it accurate. I did not say the rest of us" were just fine"
As for casting the first stone, everyone please lay down the stones they have used regarding Gailon and Bob. That should begin with those repeating that phrase.


For those that feel Bob and gailon are wrong and deliberately wrong many times, you need to back off and remember you have sinned as well. For those that believe all or part of DS/3ABN mess is true, back off and leave it alone. Certainly all that are involved in this mess have sinned. No one has a right to state(judge) another. No one has denied ...... If we spent as much time praying for others as we do talking about them much more would be accomplished for God and them,but when that comes in place of attempts to stop harmful behaviour and many times the loss of eternal life of others, we then become as guilty as those committing the act.

All have sinned is not an excuse for turning a blind eye.
All have sinned is not an excuse for not forming an opinion

Nothing we say or do is excused by "someone else is worse or as bad"
But that is what is being used here.

My cousin was a victim of the Green Riiver serial killer. His act did not wipe out any sin she may have committed,but neither can his act be viewed as "we have all sinned"
None of this says "all have not sinned",Nor does it say we are to lack an opinion or an attempt by those we see as deliberately time and time again committing that which will cause great harm to others.


I do not believe all sin is the same in God's eyes. One cherished sin we refuse to let go off, no matter how minor it seems can cause us to lose our salvation. But I believe that God will judge "according to our works"

I am not convinced that there is really a disagreement here. I think you both may just be speaking about different aspects of the same subject.

I too believe God judges us by our works, the word of God says He is coming again and his reward is with him according to their works. Often when this is stated many confuse it with the issue of salvation, and rightfully claim we are not saved by works,so excuse the small disclaimer here. We are saved by Grace through faith only, but our works are the evidence which either demonstrates that or the lack thereof..

I also do not believe all sin is the same.. I am thinking specifically of the following verse when saying that:

1Jo 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

and this may(?) be a theological topic more suited for the "Fellowship and discussion" forum rather than here, but I am just going to throw this out here and see where it goes, if anywhere...

I'm also reminded of the following verses:


Jesus:

And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not [himself], neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many [stripes].But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few [stripes]. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. Luk 12:47-48

On the issue of false witness and lying which is being addressed in this topic specifically, this seems to go hand in hand with that:

Pro 19:9 A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall perish.

Seventh-Day Adventists rightfully teach as the bible expresses that the lake of fire is the 2nd death and the unjust and unrighteous will be consumed, but some also believe that it takes longer for some than others, as in Satan...


And I also believe that even those who are promised salvation and receive it will not escape being accountable for their actions or lack thereof as the spirit of prophesy revealed to Jeremiah:
Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid. For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished. Jer 30:10-11

.. ian

[odie1962]

In my view the problem comes in when it is applied to others without showing how it applies, such as in saying/posting:

"Frankly I think this applies to not only DS and LS as well as others on the other side."

Because while entitled to think that, what is missing again are the specific examples, and evidence to back up the conclusion and judgment. We have the who, and the what, but are missing, how, why, and where...

Same thing with the following statement:

"In a ideal world LS and DS should have remained together instead of divorcing and being free to spread their "misery" to others."

Fair enough. I am not going to go thru all again,but I can give you a couple of reason for not believing either DS or LS.

LS is either one of the dimmest of women or she thinks everyone else is dimwitted. Any woman that knows her marriage is on the rocks and is foolish enough to plant a pregnancy test kit for her already suspicious husband to find is either lying or is not bright enough to me married.
DS and his "innocent tax request". Say what you want,they can try to explain it anyway they choose. Anyone that has had that type of business long enough to be donating mare's to another ministry much like his own,knows without question what he was suggesting was illegal. I don't believe the professed iinnocence. You learn very quickly in that kind of a business if you have a accountant that is on the ball. You give them all your records for the year and they ask questions and explain what can and what cannot be deducted. First year for us,I had many things I could not deduct and many things I had not listed that I could. I believe DS is lying just as I believe LS is lying. If not, if both are that lacking in common sense and intelligence they made a good pair.

Something that is not a matter of being able to prove is DS and his life of continous miracles. While I believe miracles do happen, maybe more than we will know in this life,I do not believe DS many,many claims.
The first time I listened to him I did not know that it was DS. The first time I wondered who the person was that used the word I more times than most do in a hour long speech.
The word I and miracles were almost interchangable. Listening later, same thing and I realized who he was. Minor issue but one that says big ego. Ego and the gospel are an oxymoron.


Bob and Gailon are not indispute here I am sure.
The worst about this is the people on both sides that tried to help and did have sincere concerns.
The end does not justify the means and yet it seems an accepted behaviour.

I don't blame anyone for defending themselves,but this sordid mess did not have to reach this level and DS and LS are the ones that could have stopped much of it.
I don't think either mind seeing so much attention focused on themselves. You can see what is happening to adventtalk. Without Bob or Gailon "whipping the faithful" into a frenzy, it is dead.
Let it be known he and LS did not want anyone making a sad situation worse and please let them put the past behind.
But I don't think either wanted that.
Just as now,Bob and Gailon have run out of hot air for the time being. When they post again,if the party faithful from bot sides don't respond, this whole mess will be a little bleep on the radar screen and then gone.

[Cynthia]

In my view the problem comes in when it is applied to others without showing how it applies, such as in saying/posting:

Fair enough. I am not going to go thru all again,but I can give you a couple of reason for not believing either DS or LS.

LS is either one of the dimmest of women or she thinks everyone else is dimwitted. Any woman that knows her marriage is on the rocks and is foolish enough to plant a pregnancy test kit for her already suspicious husband to find is either lying or is not bright enough to me married.

Well I can't disagree with you there. If one party suspects another of being unfaithful, and your marriage is in trouble,it is the height of stupidity to play a joke on them to convince them of that even more. I, however, for reasons I am not going to go into here in this post or thread, do not believe it was a joke. So moving on for now...

DS and his "innocent tax request". Say what you want,they can try to explain it anyway they choose. Anyone that has had that type of business long enough to be donating mare's to another ministry much like his own,knows without question what he was suggesting was illegal.

Sigh, yes it would be illegal, and anyone operating that type of business long enough would know that, but honestly if someone is ignorant of that and hasn't been operating a business at all, much less long enough, I consider them innocent motive and intention wise.

I think it grossly unfair to accuse someone of being a liar, deceiver, and having evil intentions etc when they don't know something. To me that is what has happened here and it is flat out wrong and a downright sin, so I need to explain why that is the case here.

But honestly, Odie, I am really just so absolutely sick of this whole horses issue, it has been blown so out of proportion, by Pickle and co. I have tried to explain it so many times even on MSDAOL, and BSDA, and just had Pickle keep repeating the same untruths in his broken record style as if I have pointed out no inconsistencies in his interpretation of events, or nothing missing in his partial information. Repetitious rebuttals, (and making valid points) which are never acknowledged or addressed, get tiring after awhile.
It's like running in circles or in place, you get nowhere. So to me it was rather like that throwing pearls before swine or wrestling with pigs scenario. Absolutely a waste of time, and worthless except that the pig gets to trample and seems to enjoy it. By the time you came along and started posting about the horses, I allowed all that to affect how I replied to you about it, and shouldn't have, as you aren't Pickle and had legit questions and concerns which deserved patient answers and explanations, and despite the above I really had no excuse to react to your posts as I would to Pickle's at that point. For example: http://www.adventtalk.com/forums/index. ... l#msg11323
I am very sorry.


So, I am going to try this one more time, as the truth is, where you are concerned, I am the one who allowed yout to continue with the wrong idea that the Sheltons were running a horse business after Jack's post to you on AT. I need to explain and correct that. I also need to apologize for abandoning the discussion out of frustration, leaving you to that wrong conclusion.

Here is what "Jack" posted which wasn't very clear, and is what I think led you to that assumption:

If he and Linda had horses and paid for them by breeding them and selling others, that is their business, not yours nor any one Else's. No one comes into your house and claims you can\'t have pets or spend money or resources in feeding and caring for them, as that money should go to the Lord.

Jack was posting an opinion, and nothing more, in reference to an occasional horse sold, or someone wanting to use their horse as a stud. It was in reply to the issue brought up by those accusing Danny, that the Sheltons made money off their horses, as they didn't. Any money which came in from that occasionally just helped toward the upkeep and expenses of owning horses, it did not pay for all as it sounds like was being claimed either. In no way was it meant to claim that the Shelton's did such on a regular basis or were running a business, or making any profit at all. Danny loves horses and loves to ride, that is it.

And contrary to popular opinion they didn't keep buying more and more horses, as I think they even refer to the fact that the later horses were offspring of the other horses they already had. That's why Danny in one of the published letters to Linda refers to the stud claiming they can't use him anymore-- as they would be too inbred...

(It is also expensive to have too many horses, and, this is in my personal opinion and my thoughts about it may have contributed to the Shelton's donating at least 4 horses to another ministry... If they had been interested in a profit, it seems to me they would have sold them instead.. but jmo )

I don't believe the professed iinnocence. You learn very quickly in that kind of a business if you have a accountant that is on the ball. You give them all your records for the year and they ask questions and explain what can and what cannot be deducted. First year for us,I had many things I could not deduct and many things I had not listed that I could. I believe DS is lying just as I believe LS is lying. If not, if both are that lacking in common sense and intelligence they made a good pair.

Common sense only applies if it is common knowledge which the majority should know. See here is the problem, what you say is true, but most would be ignorant before that first year, as you say you were, Not lacking common sense and intelligence, but as in lacking knowledge. But, just as you also said, once you go to file , and talk to your accountant etc the first time then you gain the knowledge and know from then on how it all works.

And here is the deal, the incident in question, which has caused such a bru ha ha, was the first time for both Danny and Linda, Odie. They had not been doing this for years and years, nor were they running a business with horses for years. They had no horse business. Just as you explained that the first year you had to file, you didn't know, neither did Danny.

Despite how this has all been presented, the year in question, with the partial communications between Linda and Danny was the first time they were trying to file a deduction for donating any horses. Linda went and talked to her accountant about the horses she was claiming which she explains to Danny in those letters while disagreeing with him ( and btw, Pickle has the number of horses and thus their worth wrong also, all you have to do is read her letter to plainly see she refers to "horses" plural, NOT ONE HORSE, that she is claiming as the link I supply above points out). But, Danny hadn't yet talked to his accountant, so next he went to his accountant and asked about the horses and filing a deduction for them and found out the same thing from his accountant that they couldn't file them as a cash deduction, so they didn't.

There was NO HORSE BUSINESS. This was the first time filing a horse donation ever came up, and they both learned how to do it properly, and legally, each from their own accountants, and then moved on, and acted with that knowledge, and that's the end of the story.

Unfortunately, or rather convieniently I think, that part of the conversation where Danny talks to his accountant also and finds this out etc is not included in the published part by Pickle.

Whether that is his doing as it suits his spin/twist as is typical, or whether that is because Linda only gave up the first part to the Pickle/Joy team to make it appear the way it does, is something I don't know. I only know that part of the story [as has been published and presented by Pickle/Joy/Linda] is not all of it. And I, have heard both the before part, and the rest of the story as Paul Harvey would say... and that part is not and never has been presented by the Pickle/Joy team, or ever acknowledged when others of us bring it up. And I have heard it straight from the horses mouth. smile.

So I know if this even comes up in the lawsuit, Pickle is without a leg to stand on, as in much else where he presents partial info and then spins and twists and reinterprets it to present people and events in the worst light, most often by putting his words and interpretations in their mouths and applying motives and intents which they never had. He has plainly done this same thing in other allegations and even in his discussions with you and I, and others, as has been pointed out many times on the forums. It is his modus operandi, and imho it would be both foolish and/or shortsided to not take into account that he is doing the same exact thing here in the horse issue, as he does in other issues.

To me, based on both what has been published, and on my behind the scenes questions because of that, and knowledge and the POV i have subsequently formed; it is false witness and sin.

I also consider it embarrassing and a downright shame to have Pickel running around doing such while proclaiming himself ( and allowing and condoning others who claim it for him as well) a righteous and justified servant of God, just concerned with sin in the camp and enforcing repentence and confession and restitution on those he accuses and judges, while easily taking personal offense and demanding apologies from those who disagree with him, all while claiming this is just doing God's work, and he is being persecuted for it.
NOT

anyway.. I'll let you reply here with any comments or questions you may have before replying to the rest, as I don't want too many topics in one post, and this is rather long already. smile.

..ian

[odie1962]

Sigh, yes it would be illegal, and anyone operating that type of business long enough would know that, but honestly if someone is ignorant of that and hasn't been operating a business at all, much less long enough, I consider them innocent motive and intention wise.

I think it grossly unfair to accuse someone of being a liar, deceiver, and having evil intentions etc when they don't know something. To me that is what has happened here and it is flat out wrong and a downright sin, so I need to explain why that is the case here.

But honestly, Odie, I am really just so absolutely sick of this whole horses issue, it has been blown so out of proportion, by Pickle and co. I have tried to explain it so many times even on MSDAOL, and BSDA, and just had Pickle keep repeating the same untruths in his broken record style as if I have pointed out no inconsistencies in his interpretation of events, or nothing missing in his partial information. Repetitious rebuttals, (and making valid points) which are never acknowledged or addressed, get tiring after awhile.
It's like running in circles or in place, you get nowhere. So to me it was rather like that throwing pearls before swine or wrestling with pigs scenario. Absolutely a waste of time, and worthless except that the pig gets to trample and seems to enjoy it. By the time you came along and started posting about the horses, I allowed all that to affect how I replied to you about it, and shouldn't have, as you aren't Pickle and had legit questions and concerns which deserved patient answers and explanations, and despite the above I really had no excuse to react to your posts as I would to Pickle's at that point. For example: http://www.adventtalk.com/forums/index. ... l#msg11323
I am very sorry.

Apology accepted but definetly not necessary.

So, I am going to try this one more time, as the truth is, where you are concerned, I am the one who allowed yout to continue with the wrong idea that the Sheltons were running a horse business after Jack's post to you on AT. I need to explain and correct that. I also need to apologize for abandoning the discussion out of frustration, leaving you to that wrong conclusion.

I can accept the fact that is what you feel you have good reason to believe. There are other issues involved with thia that still make it very questionable in my mind. Having done a similar for 17 years my viewpoint and questions cannot be answered by any other than LS and DS. As I probably won't live long enough to see the day that happens. At this point I am very happy to join the disgust bandwagon and add who cares any longer.


Here is what "Jack" posted which wasn't very clear, and is what I think led you to that assumption:

.

And contrary to popular opinion they didn't keep buying more and more horses, as I think they even refer to the fact that the later horses were offspring of the other horses they already had. That's why Danny in one of the published letters to Linda refers to the stud claiming they can't use him anymore-- as they would be too inbred...

This is one of the issues that is a red flag. It is very rare to see someone that just loves horses and to ride owns his own stallion. Many reasons for that but at this point "Who Cares"

It is also expensive to have too many horses, and, this is in my personal opinion and my thoughts about it may have contributed to the Shelton's donating at least 4 horses to another ministry... If they had been interested in a profit, it seems to me they would have sold them instead.. but jmo )

This is another area that has a red flag,but maybe needs to start waving the white as in I DON"T CARE
.

Whether that is his doing as it suits his spin/twist as is typical, or whether that is because Linda only gave up the first part to the Pickle/Joy team to make it appear the way it does, is something I don't know. I only know that part of the story [as has been published and presented by Pickle/Joy/Linda] is not all of it. And I, have heard both the before part, and the rest of the story as Paul Harvey would say... and that part is not and never has been presented by the Pickle/Joy team, or ever acknowledged when others of us bring it up. And I have heard it straight from the horses mouth. smile.

I have no problem wahtsoever believing that Bob and Gailon manipulate facts and words by others. That does not always account for every issue.
Bob and Gailon have done many things that have or will have a lasting effect on many. As I believe that DS has also done in theirown way.

anyway.. I'll let you reply here with any comments or questions you may have before replying to the rest, as I don't want too many topics in one post, and this is rather long already. smile.

..ian

I will add more from my perspective shortly.

[Penny]

Synthian - thanks for taking the time to give this long and detailed explanation regarding the horses. This information is long overdue.

What you have written reinforces what I have thought, which, succinctly, is that in all the emails Danny is making inquiries about getting a tax deduction for donating the horse or horses, but never has a splinter of evidence been presented that a deduction was ever taken.