BOLD LIARS!!

[Nestor]

Lilly said:

Then you need to wake up. This has everything to do with the great controversy . . .

I understand that some who support Danny and 3-ABN believe that they are standing with God in the final unfolding of "last day events." I will point out that there are those who beleive that Bob Pickle bellieves that he is doing exactly the same in what he is doing. I guess human nature is eager to attribute the highest of motivations for their actions.

To be clear, whether or not I beleive that the Jesuit Order has placed undercover agents within the SDA chuch should not be used to smear me with a suggestion that I do not understand the Great Controversy. I happen to believe and teach that "The Great Controversy Theme" as developed by Ellen White is the basic foundation for Last Day Events to include what we see happening today. I wil suggest, Lilly, that you do a dis-service to the God we both worship when you attempt to falsely smear me with not understanding the Great Controversy Theme on the basis of whether or not I beleive that the Jesuit Order might have placed Bob Pickle in the Chruch as an undercover agent.

[Nestor]

Lilly said:

Plus I doubt Nikolas would say this without evidence. He is pretty good with having credible documentation. It sounds like there is an ongoing investigation going on right now.

O.K. Can we engage in an honest open discussion as to whether or not there is evidence? Is it possible that honest people who understand the Great Controversey Theme mignt disagree as to whether or not there is evidence to support some idea?

[Lilly]

Let's have a biblical discussion about how to decide who is right and who is wrong. The bible says by their fruits you shall know them. Right? Praise God good fruit are walking into SDA churches every Sabbath all around the world because of the work 3ABN is doing. This is undisputed as I'm quite sure that any SDA's who attend a church on a regular basis knows someone who is either attending church or has been baptized from watching or listening to 3ABN.
Bob Pickle and his handful of followers can believe all they want that he is following God's will by spending years of wasted time trying to bring down something that is ordained of God. (3ABN). But the bible says there is a way that seemeth right unto a man but the end there of is death. Right and wrong must be based on Jesus' command to his followers of "Go ye into all the world....preaching and teaching the gospel of Jesus Christ to a lost and dying world.
For years Pickle has judged DS and 3ABN and found them wanting in his own eyes therefore justifying wasting nearly 7 years of his life to no avail except to have robbed himself and his family of time that should have been dedicated to serving God and winning souls to the Lord Jesus Christ. If Pickle would have consencrated himself to God and totally given countless hours to the furtherance of the gospel by the use of the internet as he does for the devil I'm sure a lot of souls would have been drawn to the Lord.
In the last several years that Pickle has dedicated his life to bringing down DS and 3ABN, 3ABN has continued to grow. The relationship with the leadership of the SDA church including new GC President Ted Wilson has never been closer. The relationsip between the NAD and 3ABN has also never been better in 3ABN's history. The bible says in Matt. 7 judge not that you be not judged. Pickle spends all of his time judging 3ABN and DS because he does not have the spiritual fortitude to know the difference between truth and error. God sets himself as the judge, not man. The bible also says in 2nd Corinth. that we can do nothing against the gospel, but for it.
If God wanted DS and 3ABN taken down don't you think he could do it without P/J, LS and company? and don't you think he could have done it in much less that 7yrs?
You decide. Is Pickle, Joy, Johann, LS, Arild, and the rest dedicating their time and resources to winning souls for Jesus or are they living a counterfeit Christian life trying to destroy rather than build up God's remnant church? The bible says we will know "by their fruits".

[Nestor]

Lilly: The discussion that I initiated was whether or not Bob Pickle was an undercover Jesuit. I find nothing in either the Bible or in Ellen White that addresses that question. So, how can we have a "Bbiblical" discussion on that issue?

You talk about the people who are joining the SDA Church due to the efforts of 3-ABN. Have I eer argued that such in not or has not happened? When? Waht have I said. In the past, I have personally donated money to 3-ABN because I believed that it had a place in the work of God on earth today. I once sent 3-ABN a $100 offering with the thought that it might help to get in into Colorado where I live. My focus has never been to portray 3-ABN, or even Danny, as evil.

In general terms, your post does not argue against positions that I have taken.

Yes,I do acknowledge that I have stated that people on both sides in this mess have equally sinned in how they have related to each other and that in some ways some people have equally sinned against the others. If you disagree, fine. Ido not intend to convince you otherwise.

[Lilly]

When speaking of spiritual things one has to speak about principles of God's word. Of course there's nothing in the bible or EG White about Bob Pickle being a Jesuit.
For that matter there is nothing in the bible or EG White's writings mentioning Bob Pickle period. There is nothing there about smoking "grass", watching Internet Porn, or gambling in Las Vegas in either writings also. Remember the bible tells us we humans are fighting against flesh and blood and principalities.
Whether Bob Pickle is an actual jesuit or whether he has a Jesuit spirit, doesn't really make any difference. One does not have to have gone to a Jesuit school to be used of Satan to try to destroy that which is God's.
Pickles use of media at every opportunity to bring harm to 3ABN shows that he is not interested supporting the work of 3ABN who supports the work of the SDA church.
Let me explain.
People at AT are talking as though this is the only lawsuit going on in the SDA church or within supporting ministries of the SDA church. They seem to think the Tommy case going on is the only sexual case going on even though Tommy is not SDA and hasn't worked for 3ABN in several years. If standing up as a defender of truth is BP's real MO then he would be much busier than he is right now. I am told that there are more law suits filed against the SDA church and SDA members just here in America than there are days of the year...every year! You check it out. But as SDA's we don't want to help make all these suits public. Many, possibly most are all filed on false premisis or for the wrong reasons. We allow the courts to decide when they are filed and live by the decision of the courts. Did you know that at any given day there are numerous suits filed against SDA clergy just like there are against any other clergy of other denominations. Yes, for sex charges, domestic violence, even theft and embezzelment. Joy is an example of this. He claims to be an SDA ..yet was convicted of embezzlement. Does Pickle try to expose the truth about Joy tothe public because he doesn't want Joy to make his "faith" look bad. No, to the contrary he defends Joy even after the court convicted him of embezzlement.
Since Pickle has made 3ABN his object of destruction there have been numerous other allegations against SDA's for all kinds of crimes. No church is perfect and neither are it's people. For those non SDA's reading this...your church has the same problems. Churches are all made up of humans.
It's one thing to bring to attention alleged sins of the people. Pickle was convinced that 3ABN and DS were guilty of financial wrong doing. The IRS investigated several years ago...more than 1 year and over 100,000 pages of documents were gone over with fine tooth combs. The result... the IRS walked away without demanding or receiving one penny! Does Pickle move on? No to the contrary. The first 3 years he was in denial that 3ABN was deemed innocent of his charges. Now years later he is suggesting on AT that the IRS took bribes from 3ABN. I believe Johann is suggesting the same thing. Why? Is this an attempt to find truth? Normally one would pick another battle..but no Pickle does 3ABN a favor by continuing to accuse both the IRS and 3ABN of wrong doing. It shows to to those in his range how unbalanced his thinking is. Remember, we can do nothing against the gospel, but for it.
Let's talk principle. The law judged on the side of 3ABN. Case over. What should a Christian opposer do at this point? The right thing to do is to walk away and say justice is served and move his/her focus on to serving God and his/her family. Am I right? Not Pickle and Joy...they continue to accuse years after this case was dismissed to what avail? NONE! The devil has so colored their glasses they can't see they are being used to work against truth.

[Nestor]

Lilly said:

Whether Bob Pickle is an actual jesuit or whether he has a Jesuit spirit, doesn't really make any difference. One does not have to have gone to a Jesuit school to be used of Satan to try to destroy that which is God's. . .

1) The important difference is this: Integrity and honesty. If one claims that Bob Pickle is a Jesuit, it is very important whether or not that is true and accurate. NOTE: I am not claiming that anyone here expllicity stated that Bob was a Jesuit. But, if such claims were to be made, the truth would be very important. Truth is an essential part of the character of God. Humans who claim to be followers of God do their Lord a grave injustice when in the name of the Lord they are less than honest. Honesty and truth is very important.

2) As to going to a Jesuit school: Going to such does not make one a Jesuit. The Jesuit Order operates many colleges which are attended by people from all denominations. Many of those people leave with degrees who never become Roman Catholics let alone Jesuits.

3) As to a prior conviction of GAJ: That is well known. The legal record has been posted. It has been discussed. I suppose that all have made up their minds about it.

[Lilly]

If honesty and integrity are your rule of thumb you would not be supportive of AT in any way shape or form. Think about it. For years they talk about their sources, alleged wrong doings etc. without ever revealing or proving there sources. Johann loves to plant little seeds of doubt over and over. Example: he heard the IRS was paid some big money. All of the things Pickle accused DS and 3ABN of he was proven wrong by no less than the IRS...Yet as already mentioned he continues to throw out terms like laundering, personal anurement, etc. There is nothing honest about this kind of attack on individuals or ministries. Let me make it clear. If you have not already come to terms with Bob Pickles character then nothing said here will change your mind. Pickle must believe that he is above the law and these kind of people can be dangerous. When you read the court files it is easy to see that the courts got a belly full of both P/J. AND when the courts didn't give them the answer they wanted they even accused people within the court systems of wrong doing and of which, by the way, the Appellate courts struck down and closed the case.
The government convicts Gailon Joy but Pickle does not agree with the law so still supports Gailon's claims of innocence even after several lost appeals. 3ABN is deemed innocent by the IRS of P/J accusations and Pickle again puts himself above the law by claiming or insinuating fowl play without any logical reasoning other than the IRS decision foiled his plan that he had talked about and wrote about way before it ever happened. There is no honesty and integrity in this line of thinking regardless of what someone claims to be.
For my part enough has been said on this subject. People believe what they want to believe. There's an old saying in the newspaper business that says a good newpaper man will never let the truth get in the way of a good story! This seems to be the motto of AT.

[Nestor]

Lilly said:
[quote]If honesty and integrity are your rule of thumb you would not be supportive of AT in any way shape or form.[/quote ]

LIfe sure is interesting: There are a number of people who believe that I am a dedicated supporter of 3-ABN and that I clearly do not support Bob, GAilon and AT. Yes, I post there and they toloerate it, just as I post here and you-all tolerate it.

You seek to convince me of the sins of Bob and Gailon when I have never advocated theire righteousness and as I said they consider me to be on the side of 3-ABN, as has formally been stated in a public post, I am said to have and kissed the ring. NOTE: While the reference was to my sopposed worship of 3-ABN, the picture intended was to compare me to those priest who kiss the ring of the Pope.

In general sterms I have never publicly attacked Danny and 3-ABN for their sins just as I have never publicly attacked Bob, Gailon and others for their sins. That has not been my mission in life. What I have said is that in my mind, both sides are guilty of the sins of which they accuse the other side. This conversation that has enthused in regard to Bob Pickle and whether or not he was a Jesuit is an example in my mind the 3-aBN Side doing exactly what they accuse the other side of doing. In my mind, both are wrong.

I Broke my silence on this issue because frankly I was dumbfounded by the discussion as to whether or nto Bob was a Jesuit. I did not expect that to come from the supporters of 3-ABN. In my mind, I had expected them to operate on an imperfect, but higher plane than to sink to this level. I was simply shocked. Well, life is interesting. People are human whomever they are. there are pele positng her who are willing to post on a level lower than I had expected from them.

I have been further surprised by the content of the posts that have been made in resposne to me. I expected that it would be conducted on the merits of the issue--whether or not it was factually truethat Bobwas a Jesuit. On that level, I did not expect to convince anyone and I did not expect that anyone would change my mind.

Rather than discuss on the merits of the issue, I was first charged with not understanding the Great Controversey Theme! Not an issue and not true. Then I ws approched with a discussion of the alleged sins of Bob and Gailon. That has no relationshlp to whether or nto Bob is a Jesuit. And, such is not a battle that I have taken up. While I have said that both sides have committed wrong, I have not attempted to point out individual sins of either side. I amy agree with our comments abut Bob and Gailon. I may not agree andI may agree in part. But, that is not my mission in life to trumpet the sins of people who are imperfect. God knows that honest people make mistakes (sin) and that is what the plan of salvation is all about.

Well,I guess I will continue as I have been: Calling it as I see it,and to the extent that I want to be public and therefore have both sides take me on as being wrong.

Well, as the Sabbath draws near, may the blessings of the Lord rest on all of you for imperfect people are the children of God

[steffan]

Nestor said

In general sterms I have never publicly attacked Danny and 3-ABN for their sins just as I have never publicly attacked Bob, Gailon and others for their sins. That has not been my mission in life. What I have said is that in my mind, both sides are guilty of the sins of which they accuse the other side.

Nestor, if you have a problem understanding that Linda's side (and Pickle's side) have not sinned grievously by constantly writing the most vile accusations about the folks at 3ABN, then there is nothing further to be said. To constantly insinuate that "Danny's" side - which, if you look and see, is actually 3ABN's side, is guilty of the same sins shows a lack of thought and intelligence on your part.
Having said that, since you have nothing more to add, why bother posting here? The fact that you have constantly defended Linda, to the point of rationalizing her documented lies, makes clear that you are convinced nothing went on with Linda and the doctor from Norway. How about trying to rationalize away the fact that she now lives with him, again documented ?

[Nestor]

Steffan:

I find interesting that I am often accused of holding positions that I do not hold. Well, suchis life.

In any case: The Sabbath is here. To all reading this forum I trust that you will come apart fromt the seccular issues of life that so often consume our waking moments, put those aside, and enjoy the peace ans spiritual growth that Christ alone can give to us.