BOLD LIARS!!

[Cynthia]

And now Linda is Jesus Christ? The horror! What would your good friend Pickle say to that? He gets quite white hot when he thinks Danny is being compared to Moses!

What happened then could be compared to what happened between Jesus entereing Jerusalem and a few days later when the same people who had been hailing Jesus shouted "Crusify him!"

And if she was worried about being "crusified" then all she had to do was take that letter (that Pastor L wrote) with her when she went to the board meeting. At the first sign of "crusifixion" she could whip out that letter and show it to the board!
And notice how you go from "one" highly placed insider to "many" - underlined for emphasis.

Insiders warned Linda that the board was prepared to lynch Linda if she came to their meeting - all this in spite of the beautiful and seemingly "christian" letter he wrote.

Johann,
When do the lies stop and the truth really come out from your mouth? ...[edited]...

In addition, Johann.

You wrote:

Gregory is right that he was one of the pastors suggesting Linda should request her membership be dropped from the Thompsonville Church and then joining another church by profession of faith, but he was not the only one - besides me - who did that.

It was Linda herself who published this on her personal website in Winter 2005:

I was counseled by two pastors...

So GM has said, he was one, and you identify yourself as the other. Thank you. Unless you are saying Linda was not telling the truth, let's move on, and not try to pretend or suggest again that there were many Pastors, or more that you two Pastors who counseled her about this issue...

[Cynthia]

Johann wrote:

Let me just add right here that by using modern communication vehicles I was in constant communication with many individuals thousands of miles apart, and as I have said several times before, one of my best sources of what was happening was Danny Shelton himself. That does not mean that we agreed on things, nor does it mean that I will dig down in my archives to post a quote from his letters to me just to satisfy any demands.

Admin hat on
You certainly don't have to go dig down in your archives to quote anything, that is your right. But-- on this forum you will not be able to post about and refer to anything which you claim was said to you as if it is fact, unless you are willing to do so. Your choice.
Admin hat off

[Johann]

And now Linda is Jesus Christ? The horror! What would your good friend Pickle say to that? He gets quite white hot when he thinks Danny is being compared to Moses!

What happened then could be compared to what happened between Jesus entereing Jerusalem and a few days later when the same people who had been hailing Jesus shouted "Crusify him!"

And if she was worried about being "crusified" then all she had to do was take that letter (that Pastor L wrote) with her when she went to the board meeting. At the first sign of "crusifixion" she could whip out that letter and show it to the board!
And notice how you go from "one" highly placed insider to "many" - underlined for emphasis.

Insiders warned Linda that the board was prepared to lynch Linda if she came to their meeting - all this in spite of the beautiful and seemingly "christian" letter he wrote.

Johann,
When do the lies stop and the truth really come out from your mouth? ...[edited]...

In addition, Johann.

You wrote:

Gregory is right that he was one of the pastors suggesting Linda should request her membership be dropped from the Thompsonville Church and then joining another church by profession of faith, but he was not the only one - besides me - who did that.

It was Linda herself who published this on her personal website in Winter 2005:

I was counseled by two pastors...

So GM has said, he was one, and you identify yourself as the other. Thank you. Unless you are saying Linda was not telling the truth, let's move on, and not try to pretend or suggest again that there were many Pastors, or more that you two Pastors who counseled her about this issue...

Linda might not have noticed that Gregory took part in this too. I have no problem with that. Do you? If she forgot me that is no problem with me. Why should that be such a problem for you? So lets go on, like you suggest.

[Johann]

Johann wrote:

Let me just add right here that by using modern communication vehicles I was in constant communication with many individuals thousands of miles apart, and as I have said several times before, one of my best sources of what was happening was Danny Shelton himself. That does not mean that we agreed on things, nor does it mean that I will dig down in my archives to post a quote from his letters to me just to satisfy any demands.

Admin hat on
You certainly don't have to go dig down in your archives to quote anything, that is your right. But-- on this forum you will not be able to post about and refer to anything which you claim was said to you as if it is fact, unless you are willing to do so. Your choice.
Admin hat off

Thank you. It is also your choice what you believe. I will never force you to believe what you do not want to believe. All I can say is what I know. Take it or leave it.

[Cynthia]

Johann wrote:

Let me just add right here that by using modern communication vehicles I was in constant communication with many individuals thousands of miles apart, and as I have said several times before, one of my best sources of what was happening was Danny Shelton himself. That does not mean that we agreed on things, nor does it mean that I will dig down in my archives to post a quote from his letters to me just to satisfy any demands.

Admin hat on
You certainly don't have to go dig down in your archives to quote anything, that is your right. But-- on this forum you will not be able to post about and refer to anything which you claim was said to you as if it is fact, unless you are willing to do so. Your choice.
Admin hat off

Thank you. It is also your choice what you believe. I will never force you to believe what you do not want to believe. All I can say is what I know. Take it or leave it.

Johann, this is already becoming tiresome. That wasn't the issue. You are free to believe as you choose, You can even post here about your beliefs, and are welcome to...

BUT admin hat on
when it comes to claiming another did or said something, or when it comes to making accusations or maligning, or finding fault with another. You can't just say "I KNOW", at least not here. You need to provide evidence to support what you are claiming or proof of it, when you are asked to, and preferably while making those kind of claims or accusations. Now this isn't a difficult concept to understand. You expect those same things when it comes to yourself and Linda etc. Either post here accordingly, or you "leave" and go back and post on adventtalk, where your unsupported and unproven claims and accusations are accepted as gospel truth. That is never going to happen on this forum, we are not going to "take it" because we believe all, including ourselves, need to "Prove all things and hold fast to that which is good" Capiche?

I hope so, because our forum policies and posting guidelines are not a subject to debate nor are they negotiable, nor is anything a admin says to be taken up in public discussion by a member. You administrate adventtalk, you know how it works. I am not going to publicly explain after this. If you have a problem or question or concern or further comment about this, or anything else in the future, send it via pm to me, or another Administrator please. Thank you admin hat off

[Nestor]

Right or wrong, the position of the denomination as expressed in the CHRKUCH MANUEL is:
1) The denomination is not "take up the duties of a civil magistrate" as civil government has a God ordained role.
2) There are some issues that should be settled by the civil authorities and not the church--such include among others, insurance claims, ownership of property,estates, custody of children.

[See page 191 in the 2005 edition of the CHRUCH MANUEL.]

People will likely aergue as to whether or not any of the exceptions applied to Linda. I would say that some clearly apply to her as items that should be settled by the civil authorities. Honest people may differ on others. My point is that under denominational policy, the church is to leave the settlement of some matters to the civil authorities. And, in some cases the church will not attempt to settle certain issues.

Gregory Matthews

[proffaberf451]

It has been abundantly clear over time that Johann has decided (long ago) to accept anything that Linda or her allies says as factually based truth. He has had an infatuation with Linda all along that clouds his judgment. What is most disturbing about this is, that he has never made any effort to verify anything from a third-party, non-involved source. He has based all of his accusations and claims upon the word of the supposed Dr. Arlid Abrahamson and Linda Sue Shelton. His affinity toward them has kept him from having any sort of balanced understanding.

It is sad that he remains a minster within the SDA church as he has long since behaved in such a manner that any and all credentials should have been stripped from him . . . but then, he may have lied curing any questioning that may have resulted from reports of his efforts to tear apart the church which gave him those credentials in the first place.

- prof

[Johann]

It has been abundantly clear over time that Johann has decided (long ago) to accept anything that Linda or her allies says as factually based truth. He has had an infatuation with Linda all along that clouds his judgment. What is most disturbing about this is, that he has never made any effort to verify anything from a third-party, non-involved source. He has based all of his accusations and claims upon the word of the supposed Dr. Arlid Abrahamson and Linda Sue Shelton. His affinity toward them has kept him from having any sort of balanced understanding.

It is sad that he remains a minster within the SDA church as he has long since behaved in such a manner that any and all credentials should have been stripped from him . . . but then, he may have lied curing any questioning that may have resulted from reports of his efforts to tear apart the church which gave him those credentials in the first place.

- prof

My great problem is that the only third-party non-involved sources that I have been able to get hold of have affirmed what I have said all a long. But if you will provide a proper documentation for your claim I'd be glad to consider it. Is that fair?

[Cynthia]

It has been abundantly clear over time that Johann has decided (long ago) to accept anything that Linda or her allies says as factually based truth. He has had an infatuation with Linda all along that clouds his judgment. What is most disturbing about this is, that he has never made any effort to verify anything from a third-party, non-involved source. He has based all of his accusations and claims upon the word of the supposed Dr. Arlid Abrahamson and Linda Sue Shelton. His affinity toward them has kept him from having any sort of balanced understanding.

It is sad that he remains a minster within the SDA church as he has long since behaved in such a manner that any and all credentials should have been stripped from him . . . but then, he may have lied curing any questioning that may have resulted from reports of his efforts to tear apart the church which gave him those credentials in the first place.

- prof

My great problem is that the only third-party non-involved sources that I have been able to get hold of have affirmed what I have said all a long. But if you will provide a proper documentation for your claim I'd be glad to consider it. Is that fair?

What is it specifically that you are calling a claim and wanting documentation for, Johann?

It is unclear to me what you are asking for.

If you were referring to this "he has never made any effort to verify anything from a third-party, non-involved source." There is obviously no documentation, as you can't prove a negative. I have never seen you or anyone else provide any information about doing so either so it was reasonable to conclude that you haven't or you would have said so before now. Since you are now claiming a positive: " the only third-party non-involved sources that I have been able to get hold of have affirmed what I have said all a long." It would be up to you to provide information about that and document it to be credible.

If you weren't referring to that? Well then explain, please...

[steffan]

This has to be a huge laugh since that's all the lying pastor has done from the beginning. Since there's supposedly not once that Linda or the predator doctor have ever posted online, only Johann (the liar) has done the posting - acting as nothing but their mouthpiece.
Hmm, maybe Linda (and the predatory doctor) told him to shut up after he proved Linda to be a liar ("Shortly after this post reached her - Linda's - computer, it disappeared" - remember that bit of drivel from Johann?) ...
Johann said

I'd like to make it clear that I am not a spokesperson for Linda Shelton nor Dr. Ariil Abrahamsen.

Of course it's the opposite. Maybe we should ask Barbara Kerr what happened to her strident defense of Linda? Ironically, Barbara went to Norway (to be treated by the doctor!) and found out some things that made her doubt Linda's protestations of innocence. You should have seen the suddenly supportive "sister" and crew go after Barbara after she hinted at what she discovered...
Gailon said

the most ardent supporter of DLS has frequently become a serious detractor