Work of God or man?

[Donna]

Periodically someone brings up as to whether DS has been anointed to do God's work at 3 ABN. When we step out in faith to do that which God calls us to do we can be assured He has anointed us to do it. Paul was such a one. When we obey God we are given the Holy Spirit to teach and enable us to do what He gives us to do.

If any man/woman doubts if a work be of God or man they should heed Gamaliel in Acts 5:35-39.
"Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men....Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God."

Donna

edited to correct spelling

[Cynthia]

Periodically someone brings up as to whether DS has been anointed to do God's work at 3 ABN. When we step out in faith to do that which God calls us to do we can be assured He has anointed us to do it. Paul was such a one. When we obey God we are given the Holy Spirit to teach and enable us to do what He gives us to do.

If any man/woman doubts if a work be of God or man they should heed Gamaliel in Acts 5:35-39.
"Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men....Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God."

True. They don't really have any legit complaint about the programming or messages. You don't hear them attacking that, no, they have to engage in the work of criticizing, finding fault with, accusing and condemning the individuals. Individuals who are engaged in a much more positive work then their work of being accusers night and day. The sad thing is, by doing so they are in fact, although they deny it, attacking a ministry of God.

You know their opinions about whether DS was or was not anointed, ie called to start a broadcasting network to help spread the good news around the world with an undiluted message doesn't really amount to a hill of beans, and has no effect whatsoever on the facts of the matter anyway. The 3ABN ministry was founded in 1984. The Adventist Church had nothing like that before then. An Adventist Network, a new modern tool to add to the others already in place, to add to personal witnessing and example, healing and aid ministries, teaching, preaching, books, periodicals, radio broadcasts, tv programming, and of course we now also have the internet. Here we are over 25 years later with the evidence of how the Three Angels broadcasting network has grown by leaps and bounds and continues to reach more and more places and people. The testimony of all of those who have come to the Lord and love Jesus and are following him, because the Holy Spirit reached them and spoke to them through that medium. New brethren eagerly waiting for Jesus' return, and wanting to help and share with still others as they too are called and anointed to minister and help spread the good news to every kindred, nation, and tongue. If that's not evidence of God's work, what is?

I was reading on the other forum the discussion about the latter rain, and I think people tend to forget, the latter rain will not fall on anyone who has not taken part in the early rain. The Lord poured out the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, and the Disciples literally turned the world upside down in a few short years, with their preaching and teaching, accompanied by miracles, healing, and all the gifts of the spirit, and yet here we are almost 2000 yrs later and how few are doing their same works (God's work) today? Why not? The early rain still falls all around us, God pouring out his spirit to anoint and equip us all character wise, and mission wise. I can only think it is a lack of faith. We are to pray for the Holy spirit, and for more faith because those things are not in us by themselves.

If we died today, could we look back at our lives and be happy at how we spent our time, and energy? Would Jesus be? If the answer to that question is no, then we need to get right with the Lord, and imo we need to do it quickly because going by the state of our country and this world, I don't think we have much time left...

"Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting. "

[Cynthia]

I don't know if this is the right thread to post this in, but as I was sitting here thinking about King David, partially because this talk of anointing on AT triggered the opening reply here, and that discussion had references to David, and partially because I just quoted from Psalms 139 in the end of my post above which was written by David.

Anyway as I was reading that thread on AT, I read this: "please don't even try to compare King David with Danny Shelton. King David had his sin pointed out to him and he spent a week on his face in repentence. He admitted that he was wrong."

My first thought was, well please don't compare yourself or any other to the prophet Nathan either, for God told him what to say, and you aren't speaking for God and don't know all.

But then I calmed right down.. the thing is, I do believe all scripture was given by inspiration of God and as such is necessary and good for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. The word itself takes it even further "That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." Over and over the NT writers cite the stories and people and principles revealed in the OT as examples. We really need to take it all personally and apply it to ourselves and others, I believe, and I think that the psalms written by David are the songs of daily living, and inspiration. They record alot of what David went through, and what he was taught, and yes, when God (not man) pointed out his sin, he did repent,(Psalm 51) but there are plenty of times other than that, where men jumped up and accused him and thought he should repent, and he did not. Why? He hadn't done what he was accused of... It started right away before he even slew the giant Goliath. His Dad told him to take food to his brothers, so he left his sheep with a keeper and obeyed his Dad, and his brother Eliab greets him with a false accusations and judgments: "Why did you come down here? And with whom have you left those few sheep in the wilderness? I know your pride and the insolence of your heart, for you have come down to see the battle" It continued after he slew Goliath, at the Lord's bequest and according to his empowerment, for he was accused of pride and wanting to take the kingdom and rule...

I copied this from somewhere, and the author is unknown to me, my apologies but I remembered it and think it worth quoting:

Long ago, a desperate young man named David was falsely accused of treason and sought refuge at the spring of En-gedi. There was a huge price on his head. But there was love and faith toward God in his heart. During that time, an unnamed person who travelled through this area climbed the winding, steep roads leading out of the valley and went to Gibeah, to report to the king that he had seen this young fugitive and his small band of friends at the spring. The king, named Saul, quickly gathered 3,000 of his finest soldiers "to seek David and his men upon the rocks of the wild goats" (1Sam.24:2). And when he entered into a certain cave for a rest, King Saul came much closer to capturing David than he realized, for unknown to him, David and his friends had taken refuge from the king's approaching army in that very same cave and they were now cowering in the cave's shadows, at one point within arm's reach of the unsuspecting king.

"Kill him, David!" urged one of his men in whispered tones, "God has given your enemy into your hand!" But David could not.

"How can I lift my hand against a man upon whom God's anointing oil has been poured?" responded David. "God forbid that I should do harm to God's anointed."

So, David allowed the man who was seeking his life to escape unharmed. David's respect for the anointing of God saved him from sin, because it kept him from avenging himself. David would not try to save himself. He would not yield to the appealing spirit of self-preservation. He put his trust in God. King Saul attempted to murder David on several occasions, although David was Saul's bravest and most loyal officer. Now, he was pursuing David wherever he could find him. But why?

To find out, we must go back a few years to the victory parade which the people gave to King Saul and David, after David had slain the Philistine giant, Goliath. There was cheering, celebration, music and dancing that day in Israel, as the soldiers returned from the battle with all sorts of booty. The oppressors were driven away! Israel was saved!

The happy citizens of Israel had every right to be as joyous as they were. But it was along the route of the victory parade that Saul's heart was bitterly turned against young David, and it was caused by something over which David had absolutely no control. Along the roadside, beating their tambourines, happy women - excited that the Philistine giant had at last been killed - sang in joyous tones, "Saul hath slain his thousands, and David his ten thousands."

"And Saul was wroth, and the saying displeased him. And he said `They have ascribed unto David ten thousands, and to me they have ascribed but thousands. And what can he have more but the kingdom?' And he eyed David from that day and forward. And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit came upon Saul...and David played [music for the king] as at other times. And there was a javelin in Saul's hand. And Saul cast the javelin. For he said, `I will smite David even to the wall with it.' And David avoided out of his presences twice."

What was Saul really after? David? That is certainly what Saul believed he was chasing. But even David found that difficult to believe (1Sam.24:14). What was the point in killing David? Saul believed that if he killed David, he would be secure on the throne of Israel. But the truth was that as long as God wanted Saul to be king, there was no power on earth that could remove him from the throne. And, on the other hand, if God was displeased with Saul as king, there was nothing that could keep him on the throne, even the death of the man God had chosen to replace him. Saul had forgotten God, and was selfishly, foolishly trying to save himself. King Saul had continually displeased the Lord until, at last, the old prophet Samuel told him that God had rejected him as king. Rather than repent before the God of mercy, however, Saul sensed that David was the man whom God had chosen to replace him, and he was determined to stamp out the young man's life.

What a foolish notion! Saul was trying to kill David in order to prevent the word of God from coming true. In this instance, Saul could no more succeed in killing David than he could succeed in proving God to be a liar. David was hidden within the gates of God's word, and all that poor Saul could do was circle that figurative city, uttering vain curses - and threats which he could never carry out, though neither he nor David fully realized it yet.

This is what envy is and this is what envy does. It is hatred for those whom God has loved, and it attempts to destroy what God has built. It seeks to preserve self, without realizing that "safety is of the Lord." It senses who it is that carries the blessing of the Lord, and it conjures up plausible-sounding reasons to turn others against them. It is deceived and deceives others. It is cruel and implacable. It is, as Solomon said, "as rottenness in the bones".

"Where envy and strife is," wrote James, "there is confusion and every evil work." Confusion, because envy forgets that it is only by the hand of the Almighty that any man is any thing. When some tried to stir up envy in John the Baptist against Jesus, he responded, "No man can receive anything, except it be given to him from above. He must increase, but I must decrease."...

Ok, now having said all that, here is what I recalled as I sat here thinking over all, and actually wanted to post.
see next one...

[Cynthia]

I read periodically on a blog entitled "Tuesdays with Jesus". This was written by the author last week. I think it may speak to many here, at least I hope and pray it does. I know it did to me, as I bit back a couple of replies I might otherwise have made over the past couple days, and prayed for more patience and understanding.

Be blessed...

"Shimei Situations"
January 11, 2011

"So David and his men continued along the road while Shimei was going along the hillside opposite him, cursing as he went and throwing stones at him and showering him with dirt." (2 Samuel 16: 13)

What is your response when you feel that you've been wronged by another person? What do you do when you've been hurt SO very badly by someone else? Believe it or not, one option is to go to revenge advice web sites and type in your situation. Or...you can go to Revenge Products Inc., and buy products to get revenge on your ex or your enemy. Their ad boasts, "Check out our revenge products." You can buy anything from dartboard covers with your enemy's face on them, to voodoo dolls, and kitty pan liners. I found over 5 million hits for the word "revenge" on Google. It seems to me that getting revenge and retribution on those who have wronged us is the way to go. It's normal. It's common, it's accepted and even encouraged by our society. But is it God's way? Let's see.

2 Samuel 16: 5-14 tells the story of a man named Shimei. He may be very unfamiliar to you, but his story is a powerful one. My prayer today is that you will find comfort for today, or that you will tuck this message away for some future time when you encounter a "Shimei Situation" of your own.

The setting for the story takes place when King David is running from his own son, Absalom, who rebelled against him, had his own band of followers and was seeking his father's life. Aren't there just some times in our lives when it seems that everyone is against us?

As David and his men are approaching Bahurim, a town in Benjamin between Jerusalem and Jericho, beyond the Mount of Olives, on the way to Jericho, a man named Shimei is running along the ridge, along the hillside, opposite David, cursing and throwing stones and dirt at David and his men. He taunted David with false accusations. He accuses David of shedding blood in the household of Saul, which is something David had never done. Back in the day, David had been given ample opportunity to literally kill Saul, but he never did. And he never harmed any of Saul's family. False accusations. Have you ever been falsely accused? In the vernacular of our day, Shimei's words would have sounded like this. "You are a good for nothing." Some folks I know would have used much stronger language.

Ever had a Shimei of your own? Someone running right alongside of you in life, yelling curses, throwing stones, and flinging dirt your way? Maybe they tell you that you're a "good for nothing." Maybe they tell you that you'll never amount to anything or that you're too far gone. Maybe someone is accusing you falsely for things that you've never done. What do you do? What HAVE you done in this kind of a situation? What ARE we to do? King David was called "a man after God's own heart." What did he do in just this same situation?

Abishai, David's bodyguard, begged the king to let him decapitate Shimei, but David said no. It's pretty popular from the world view to get revenge when someone's done you wrong. Friends and family say, "Are you going to let them get away with that? You have every right to get back at them for what they did to you." Revenge is called "sweet" and paybacks are considered normal, right?

King David knew who the real "King" was. He knew that God was sovereign and in control. According to the Jewish historian, Josephus, David believed that it was by God's permission that Shimei treated him in such a hateful manner. His friends didn't see it quite that way. God had said, "Do not touch my anointed ones; do my prophets no harm." (Psalm 105:15) David's men knew that cursing the King, the Lord's anointed, was a capital offense. As a result, Shimei deserved to die.
David, on the other hand, believed that if he did not return evil for evil, God would one day repay him for his obedience. He saw Shimei and the situation as an instrument of God and he believed that God would one day bring the vindication on Shimei that he deserved. God had said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay." (Deuteronomy 32: 35)

So...for now...Shimei could continue to curse and throw stones and shower David with dirt. Josephus says, "David went on his way without troubling himself with Shimei."

Oh my! That we could trust like that! That we could be so confident that God would repay our enemy that we could go on our way, "without troubling ourselves" with them. Most of the time, that's not what we do, is it? We get very troubled. We work ourselves into a frenzy. Our mind whirls. Our gut turns. We rehash the offense over and over and over again in our mind. We don't do a small amount of talking about the person, and what they did to us, to everyone who will lend an ear to our story. We walk around singing "another somebody done some somebody wrong song." For days. For months. Sadly, maybe even for years.

Be so clear dear one, that I am not minimizing any pain or offense that has been done to you. Many of you have been wronged in the worst possible ways and hurt very, very deeply. Those wrongs may even be new and fresh today, and you're still reeling from the assault of your enemy. I do not shame you for the hurt that you feel. I understand. I've been hurt deeply too. God created us to have feelings and emotions, and those feelings get hurt sometimes. We suffer wounds of abuse and rejection, loneliness, false accusation and betrayal. Frankly, it hurts! I would be a hypocrite of the highest order if I told you that your wounds weren't deep and tender and didn't hurt very badly. But in order to grow and mature and move past those wounds in a healthy way, we have to learn what to do with that pain and become aware of what our Creator wants us to do.
David went on his way without troubling himself with Shimei. The passage reads, "David and his men continued along the road and arrived at their destination." It says that they arrived "exhausted", but golly-geez, they arrived!

It can be so exhausting when your Shimei is running right alongside of you. You feel the pain and sting of the curses. You get some bruises from the stones. But if you do as David did, and "not trouble yourself with Shimei", and continue along the road, you may arrive dirty and exhausted, but you will arrive.

We can stay stuck in our bitterness. We can stay stuck in unforgiveness and in seeking the perfect revenge, or we can arrive at the God-given destination for our lives. Revenge will only be like drinking poison yourself, and hoping that your enemy will die. We only hurt ourselves and keep ourselves away from our destinies and the appointments and plans that God has for our lives. And He does have a destiny, an appointment and a plan for each and every one of us. Don't trouble yourself with Shimei! Continue along on your way and arrive at your destination!

Looks like the end of the Shimei situation, doesn't it? I thought so too when I first read the passage. Later I found that this wasn't the end by a long shot! It would be great if you would read 2 Samuel 19: 16-23.

After Absalom's death, the people of Judah invited David to come and rule over them, and they sent a delegation to the Jordan River to meet him and to help him cross the waters. Lo and behold, who was part of that welcoming committee? None other than Shimei himself!

I think that he had to do some pretty quick thinking because David was on his way and would surely remember the day that Shimei disrespected him, and exhibited such despicable behavior. Surely David would punish him. We see Shimei hit the floor and beg the king for forgiveness.

In his own words, he says: "For I your servant (all of a sudden he's David's servant?), know that I have sinned (ya think!), but today I have come here as the first of the house of Joseph to come down and meet my lord the king (aren't I wonderful? See how I've changed?)" He's pouring it on pretty thick to save his skin. Again, Abishai wants Shimei's head, but again, David grants him mercy and vows that Shimei shall not die. It's interesting that his forefather Joseph had acted in just the same way after being thrown into a pit by his brothers. There came a day when the brothers needed Joseph's mercy and he gave it freely saying, "You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives. So then, don't be afraid. I will provide for you and your children." And he reassured them and spoke kindly to them." (Genesis 50: 20-21)

There may come a day when YOUR Shimei, your own enemy, may come to you and sincerely ask for your forgiveness or your help. Will you show them mercy and grace, or will you exact your own brand of revenge and cut off their head?

Clara Barton, the founder of the American Red Cross, was reminded one day of a vicious deed that someone had done to her years before. But she acted as if she had never heard of the incident. "Don't you remember it?" her friend asked. "No", came Clara's reply. "I distinctly remember forgetting it." Shake it off and move on.

I encourage you to read 1 Kings 2: 8-9, 36-46 to find out the end of Shimei at the hands of Solomon, the king's son. It took years, but there was an end to Shimei. That can be hard to swallow.

Delayed justice is not denied justice. God says that it is His job to avenge and repay. Your Shimei may think that he is secure when he doesn't get immediate punishment for what he did you. He threw stones and dirt and cursed you up and down. He falsely accused you. And nothing happened. Instead you showed restraint, or mercy or forgiveness or kindness and chose not to get revenge. He's feeling pretty secure right about now, so let him! Don't trouble yourself with Shimei. Continue on the road with your eyes fixed on Christ. You may be dirty and exhausted but stay focused. You will arrive at your intended destination. Somewhere in God's perfect sovereignty, He allowed your situation, your mistreatment, and the wrong that was done to you. Nothing touches you without first going through the nail-scarred hands of Jesus.

Get ready! One day your Shimei may come to you and fall at your feet and sincerely beg you for mercy. When that happens, give it to him. He may ask for your help. Give it to him. Forgive as the Lord forgave you, graciously and freely.

Always remember that your God is a just God. He will repay. In His own way. In His own time. Trust Him completely for that. Jesus Himself was falsely accused. They beat Him, spit on Him, pulled out His beard, mocked Him and finally, nailed Him to a cross, and left Him to die. He never, ever, not once, did anything wrong. What did Jesus do? Some of His last words were, "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do." He had been betrayed by Judas in the garden, but He called him "friend."

Joseph forgave his brothers and showed them mercy. David didn't trouble himself with Shimei and he didn't seek revenge. Jesus suffered at the hands of those who treated Him unfairly and He asked His Father to forgive them. Ask your Father to forgive your Shimei. You forgive him too. Remember that God says, "Vengeance is mine. I will repay." Let Him do it.

Living the Word along with you,
Donna

[Mercy]

"At this I raised my eyes, and saw a straight and narrow path, cast up high above the world. On this path the Advent people were traveling to the city, which was at the further end of the path. They had a bright light set up behind them at the beginning of the path, which an angel told me was the midnight cry. This light shone all along the path and gave light for their feet so that they might not stumble. If they kept their eyes fixed on Jesus, who was just before them, leading them to the city, they were safe." Early Writings, p. 14 (Vision of Ellen G. White)

The "midnight cry" is giving the 3-angels messages to the world
This is what 3ABN is doing.

[Mercy]

"I saw that the very spirit of perjury, that would turn truth into falsehood, good into evil, and innocence into crime, is now active. Satan exults over the condition of God's professed people. While many are neglecting their own souls, they eagerly watch for an opportunity to criticise and condemn others. All have defects of character, and it is not hard to find something that jealousy can interpret to their injury. "Now," say these self-constituted judges, "we have facts. We will fasten upon them an accusation from which they cannot clear themselves." They wait for a fitting opportunity, and then produce their bundle of gossip, and bring forth their tidbits....They gather up unguarded expressions from another, not considering that words may be uttered hastily, and hence may not reflect the real sentiments of the speaker. But those unpremeditated remarks, often so trifling as to be unworthy of notice, are viewed through Satan's magnifying glass, pondered, and repeated, until mole hills become mountains."

5T 94-95

[Truth]

Well Mercy, I thought this passage in Desire of Ages very good--what do you think of it?

"The same evil spirit that tempted Christ in the wilderness, and that possessed the maniac of Capernaum, controlled the unbelieving Jews. But with them he assumed an air of piety, seeking to deceive them as to their motives in rejecting the Saviour. Their condition was more hopeless than that of the demoniac, for they felt no need of Christ and were therefore held fast under the power of Satan." DA p. 256

[Jamie]

Johann started a new thread on AT this morning entitled "God's work" and posted:

God's Work
« on: Today. March 29, 2011 at 04:48:08 AM »
Is it the work of God or the work of man? How can you tell?

Some people claim there are three sides to every item, Your side, my side, and then the right side.

Then there are those who claim that I only get my information from one side. How do they know? How will they document that claim?

I have recently had close contact with a person who has been associated with Gospel Outreach, and he verifies all that I have said about Linda's adventures there. And still people claim that Linda must be my only source!

In recent months I have discussed this whole affair with a number of presidents and directors from various world divisions of the Seventh-day Adventist church. Many of them seem to be in a real dilemma.

Actually one leader summed it up like this several years back. The problem of the church is this: Many regard 3ABN as the image of the Church, and Danny Shelton is the head of this image. Although Church leaders realize that the accusations against Linda Shelton are false it seems necessary to sacrifice Linda on the altar of 3ABN's demands to avoid tarnishing the image of the Church. So the message was given to Linda from this corner: You need to be sacrificed to the unjustified demands to save the image. . .

This was the message from one particular individual who yielded great authority at that time. The same individual made it known he had pleaded Linda's case and requested the Board of Directors to re-consider, but that was all in vain. So as a last resort he pleaded with Linda to let herself be sacrificed. My source for this is not Linda, but mostly that leader himself whom I have known for many years.

Just recently I have had talks with several other presidents and leaders about this matter, some of them former presidents and leaders. They still face similar problems. On one hand they have the image of the church, and on the other hand they still face the old problems they have had with what some of them designate as the self-appointed pope of Adventism, Danny Shelton.

One president said to me that it is impossible for him to express his own conviction because the supporters of 3ABN cry out so loud and would accuse him of heresy and it would split the church. He gave this as the reason why he keeps quiet, and you can then understand why I cannot say who he is. As our conversation came to a conclusion I could even hear the smile in his voice as he admonished me to keep on doing what I think is the best.

Some claim I should be stripped of my credentials, but they - as usual - have no idea what they are saying. I came to 3ABN back in 2003 because my credentials had already expired due to my advanced age. Back then I was 70.

3ABN has been instrumental in winning many souls, according to some statistics, although one of the departmental secretaries informs me that the statistics are not telling the truth. I did not notice 3ABN mentioned among the reasons the Seventh-day Adventist Church is today the only growing church in North America. 3ABN likes to claim they are the most important, and they might cling to that claim till their last breath.

The truth is that winning souls is the work of God, regardless of the claims of man. God does use various vehicles, and 3ABN is far from the only one. With a reformation it might still be a powerful fool in His hands.

My answer follows.

Re: God's Work
« Reply #1 on: Today at 06:12:28 AM »

Johann,


You are making claims here about what people have allegedly said, and then not identifying them as usual, so there is no way to verify what you claim, or to refute it. It never looks right to me because this is the same way liars spin their tales making unsubstantiated accusations, and unsupported claims about and from others. If you are telling the truth, and these people you are making claims about are ashamed or afraid to say the same things publicly or have their names used? Then imo, they shouldn't be saying it in the first place, and you shouldn't be repeating it as that is not how God calls us to work. Imo, these type of posts do you no credit, or Linda either. They in fact further undermine any credibility you may have had with those who are doing God's work. I do not believe that your continued efforts to malign and discredit Danny Shelton and the 3ABN ministry and libel them will ever be seen by any of God's people as "God's work", as he has prescribed methods and principles we are to follow which don't resemble yours at all. Nor does posting the opinions of anonymous people change anything or really prove anything. Libel, slander, public accusations and faultfinding are not how God leads men to repent. Something to think about?

Johann asked:

Is it the work of God or the work of man? How can you tell?

then answered:

3ABN has been instrumental in winning many souls, according to some statistics, although one of the departmental secretaries informs me that the statistics are not telling the truth. I did not notice 3ABN mentioned among the reasons the Seventh-day Adventist Church is today the only growing church in North America. 3ABN likes to claim they are the most important, and they might cling to that claim till their last breath.

The truth is that winning souls is the work of God, regardless of the claims of man.[Johann] God does use various vehicles, and 3ABN is far from the only one. With a reformation it might still be a powerful fool in His hands

Yes, that is God's work. No, 3ABN has never claimed they are the most important. You say they say that- bearing false witness.

It is time to stop beating 3ABN, and let them do their work. Let go, and let God, Johann. Let God decide who needs to reform and who doesn't. Let God lead in reformation when and if that is necessary. Let God choose his vehicle(s).

Acts 5
...And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.... Then the high priest rose up, and all they that were with him, (which is the sect of the Sadducees,) and were filled with indignation,
And laid their hands on the apostles, and put them in the common prison....Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not...

.... and the apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Him hath God exalted with his right hand [to be] a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. And we are his witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

When they heard [that], they were cut [to the heart], and took counsel to slay them.

Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.

For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought. After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, [even] as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.

And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten [them], they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.

And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name. And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

[Jamie]

"I saw that the very spirit of perjury, that would turn truth into falsehood, good into evil, and innocence into crime, is now active. Satan exults over the condition of God's professed people. While many are neglecting their own souls, they eagerly watch for an opportunity to criticise and condemn others. All have defects of character, and it is not hard to find something that jealousy can interpret to their injury. "Now," say these self-constituted judges, "we have facts. We will fasten upon them an accusation from which they cannot clear themselves." They wait for a fitting opportunity, and then produce their bundle of gossip, and bring forth their tidbits....They gather up unguarded expressions from another, not considering that words may be uttered hastily, and hence may not reflect the real sentiments of the speaker. But those unpremeditated remarks, often so trifling as to be unworthy of notice, are viewed through Satan's magnifying glass, pondered, and repeated, until mole hills become mountains."

5T 94-95

Well Mercy, I thought this passage in Desire of Ages very good--what do you think of it?

"The same evil spirit that tempted Christ in the wilderness, and that possessed the maniac of Capernaum, controlled the unbelieving Jews. But with them he assumed an air of piety, seeking to deceive them as to their motives in rejecting the Saviour. Their condition was more hopeless than that of the demoniac, for they felt no need of Christ and were therefore held fast under the power of Satan." DA p. 256

Interesting... and yet they believed and claimed they were God's chosen people obeying his law.

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see...

Fruits are visible however and it is how both we and they are known.

Two passages come to my mind here.

Luke 9:54-56
And when his disciples James and John saw [this], they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save [them].

John 15:1 -16:3
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.

If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and [that] your joy might be full. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.These things I command you, that ye love one another.

If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before [it hated] you.If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.
He that hateth me hateth my Father also. If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father. But [this cometh to pass], that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

..These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.