Antics of Mr. Pickle and Mr. Joy

[Breezy]

Please let me say one thing about my posts. I say what I mean when I post. I have no hidden agendas at all. Never have and never will. My posts should be taken at face value and nothing else. I do not play mind games or manipulation games. Wouldn't know how anyway.

1. When I said the farming stuff was insignificant, I meant in light of the whole lawsuit. It is "small potatoes" in comparison. I was NOT saying it was not something to look at. I was not speaking about small sins or large sins. I was saying it was insignificant because DS has done nothing illegal or wrong when it comes to the hay fields and his horses. It's like people getting so nit-picky to find something--ANYTHING--on DS that they will examine to the inth degree.

2. You said TS committed a sexual act with children. I'm not going to repeat what I said in my last post but obviously it applies here. TS is no pedophile.

3. You mentioned TS and then in your next paragraph went on with telling about children who were molested. I assumed you were talking about TS and some other story Joy/Pickle had come up with accusing TS more. I am sorry that this was misunderstood. My fault.

4. No I didn't read your last paragraph because I had to go. And now I must go again. I have a lot to do before sundown.

PS: this is in answer to your first letter this morning, not the most recent.

[Penny]

Thank you Penny for that link. It is good to see many turning around and realizing that Pickle and Joy have been wrong. Because they know the IRS has cleared 3abn (which is where their biggest complaints were from) now they are turning to little insignificant things such as farming practices, etc. It is as if they will do anything they can to try to find "something" in which to pin their hopes.

We know that Joy and Pickle will not find anything. They think they have found all kinds of things of real significance but what they do not realize is that there is a logical explanation for everything. It was already explained about the horses. But because we are "anonymous" some do not believe us. Well, it doesn't really matter because the truth will come out eventually because we are telling the truth. Like Clay found out the real truth on BSDA, so will everyone else whether they want to believe it is the truth or not.

Pickle and Joy have painted themselves into a corner. In the recesses of their own thoughts they know that Linda took them for a ride around the mulberry patch. But they have published all sorts of stuff on the web, so no matter what, they continue to put forth all sorts of efforts to prove to themselves that there was some reason to justify all that they have done. Really there's not much worse than for someone to use you, make a fool of you or let you make a fool of yourselves on the world wide web and then leave you high and dry and this is what has happened to Pickle and Joy.

The Bible says that by their fruits you will know them. And the fruits of Pickle and Joy are now known and getting to be better known. We just await their final downfall.

Not surprising that many will not believe anonymous sources. It is understandable. But just because you see something in print does not mean that it is true. Just because Pickle and Joy have identified themselves should we believe them? I scrutinized some of the commentary on the financial reports and found that their (and I include Fran here) analysis was misleading at best. This left me with no confidence in anything else that the Pickle Joy Team was "reporting."

It is a sad thing to see dissatisfied individuals who feel it their special calling to go after God's workers and work. They will come to no good end, unless they repent and turn around. It is my prayer that they will turn around before it is too late.

Can a chicken change its feathers? or a leopard its spots?

One more thing - are there any programs on 3ABN this weekend that are "must-see"? I'd like some recommendations. Thank you!

[odie1962]

I am assuming you are having an easier time comprehending the previous post. Number one I am not a him.


Again if you are not reading correctly. I did not accuse any at 3ABN of molesting children. TS has pretty well eliminated any doubt as to his immoral conduct. In addition I do believe Duane Clem.

Personally I hope Gailon and Bob are beaten and beaten badly in this. Not because DS is the sainted boy scout but I believe Gailon and Bob, as long as he sticks with him are actually dangerous to the church as a whole. 3ABN is not a church run organization. As much as I believe those donating have ever right to know where the money is spent and if a party like TS is in trusted positions to re-offend again, I believe there are worse things than curing the disease.

I am going to be spending some time going thru many of the more vicious attacks on those not agreeing with Gailon Wind Bag and e-mailing them to the MN conference. and Gailons. Especially the unwarrented nasty,self righteous attack on Whitney Phipps. While I doubt if they have control of the rabid attacks by Gailon and Bob,seeing it compiled, and the enormity of the amount of unprovoked attacks might at least prompt the respective churches to think long and hard before allowing them positions of trust. I cannot imagine either in the role of elder or church treasurer. Positions where they would have acess to sensitive issues. In that if possible I think both these men must be stopped

I am firmly convinced if Gailon ever scores a big win,he actually may go on to splitting the church or a good portion of it.

I believe that evil teamed with intelligence is a dangerous mix.
Usually the groupies to these types see a chance to be close to the attention in hopes a bit of importance rubs off on them.
No doubt it also is a big draw for nut cases.

I think there is a bit of the groupie syndrome on both sides.

[odie1962]

Not surprising that many will not believe anonymous sources. It is understandable. But just because you see something in print does not mean that it is true. Just because Pickle and Joy have identified themselves should we believe them? I scrutinized some of the commentary on the financial reports and found that their (and I include Fran here) analysis was misleading at best. This left me with no confidence in anything else that the Pickle Joy Team was "reporting."

Never have put much faith in anonymous, more less after spending almost 6 years where many had plenty to say if they could only remain anonymous.

It is a sad thing to see dissatisfied individuals who feel it their special calling to go after God's workers and work. They will come to no good end, unless they repent and turn around. It is my prayer that they will turn around before it is too late.

Absolutely everything you say is true about DS supporters as well as the other side. Many are afraid even when they see God's workers committing terrible wrongs to speak out.

Can a chicken change its feathers? or a leopard its spots?

Probably best then you don't waste your time praying for them. They cannot change anyway,which can flip to the other sides as well

[Breezy]

yes penny, there is an excellent program on that was shown Thursday night--two hours long! Dr. Neil Nedley, Elder Doug Batchelor and Elder Don MacIntosh (?) were all there with Elder Gilley talking about Weimar and the plans they have for it. It was SO exciting to hear.

Dr. Nedley said the plan is to start a regular pre-med program for students who want to go into medicine! He is also working a lot with the NEWSTART program and some other things. There is much much more they are doing!! It was so thrilling to watch!! I think it will be shown again on Sunday morning but not sure what that would be your time. I think 3abn time is 8 a.m.

I highly recommend anyone watching this program.

[Breezy]

1. Odie--I never called you a "him" because I know who you are.

2. Here below are two quotes by you today. Could you explain them so I can understand them? At present it looks like you are saying exactly the opposite:

"At one time we had a major case of child sexual abuse. The act is not what I am referring to or accusing anyone of molesting small children, notwithstanding that which is obvious TS did".

"I did not accuse TS of molesting children,it was vulneable young men. So get off your high horse and quit taking a lesson from Mr. Gailon WindBag..."

3. I didn't say you were accusing 3abn of molesting children. Are YOU reading what I'm saying? I was speaking ONLY of TS, not 3abn.

4. No one has denied that TS and Duane Clem did wrong. They both apologized to each other and forgave each other. And although Duane Clem was an adult, it was still wrong--on his part and on the part of TS. But this doesn't make TS guilty of child molestation charges. He is innocent until PROVEN guilty in a court of law.

5. There is no such "groupie syndrome" going on with those who are standing up for the integrity of 3abn.

6. Yes, what Joy is doing is wrong and needs to stop now. I believe that is why there is a lawsuit in process. 3abn is wanting to stop these men. 3abn will win this lawsuit.

[odie1962]

[quote]
2. Here below are two quotes by you today. Could you explain them so I can understand them? At present it looks like you are saying exactly the opposite:

A"At one time we had a major case of child sexual abuse. The act is not what I am referring to or accusing anyone of molesting small children, notwithstanding that which is obvious TS did".


The act is not what I am referring to or accusing anyone. What else would you like me to say except I am not accusing anyone, understanding that TS himself agreed he had inappropriate conduct with a young man."

I did not accuse TS of molesting children,it was vulneable young men.

3. I didn't say you were accusing 3abn of molesting children. Are YOU reading what I'm saying? I was speaking ONLY of TS, not 3abn.

A. I believe TS is guilty as I believe those that have come forward. I also believe that nothing can be done at this point. If it were still possible the victms would still take the proper legal course and many are not able to do that.



4. No one has denied that TS and Duane Clem did wrong. They both apologized to each other and forgave each other. And although Duane Clem was an adult, it was still wrong--on his part and on the part of TS. But this doesn't make TS guilty of child molestation charges. He is innocent until PROVEN guilty in a court of law.

A. Again ...The act is not what I am referring to or accusing anyone of molesting small children, notwithstanding that which is obvious TS did".

Now do you understand the part that says I am not accusing anyone of molesting small children.
In our state what TS did is a felony and people like TS have had free acommodations,compliments of the state of MN. Personally I am all in favor of that happening to anyone that uses their positions of trust to committ acts like this.
TS is not innocent of sexual conduct inappropriate sexual conduct. He is not one to be put in a position of trust again where he has acess to those that are vulnerable to his type of "advances"

5. There is no such "groupie syndrome" going on with those who are standing up for the integrity of 3abn.

A. Both sides have their groupie's ,rushing in at every statement declaring their side INNOCENT.
Every person for DS knows beyond a doubt he is innocent.
As gailon and Bob are declared innocent from those that follow them. There are many declaring how well they knew the Shelton's and who did wrong first. You don't know unless DS and LS tell you. Being in their home gives you acess to see what they wanted others to see. Yet declare you do. Both are blaming the other


6. Yes, what Joy is doing is wrong and needs to stop now. I believe that is why there is a lawsuit in process. 3abn is wanting to stop these men. 3abn will win this lawsuit


Many are feeling now that Gailon JOy needs to be stopped. Because of him and his nasty, vicious attacks anyone that happens to cross his path in this gets trampled
On the other hand, you are not the judge and jury over who wins this and stranger things have happened, especialy when people are so truly blind to those they support

The example I used of a power driven woman causing the guilty party to go free as everything was so tainted it was impossible to know what to believe coming from the children. I think it is likely that will happen in this and I think Gailon will use everything he can to keep this going because he likes feeling powerful and important. I am not sure Bob will stay thru the end. He does have a family to support as a father and provider.

[Cynthia]

I am wondering about your statement that you believe those who have come forward...

I personally don't know who these people are with the exception of Duane Clem back in 1985 or 86, and, a minor in the mid eighties who's Mom made a complaint to the police department. There is a bunch of he said he said attached to that, but the bottom line is the police investigated and did not find him credible, and the DA knows and found nothing to act on, and the Church of God suspended TS's credentials pending the results of that investigation, and after words TS continued to Pastor both that Church of God in Illinois and the other Church of God in Virginia.

I know of no one else who has come forward. Maybe you do, have you talked with anyone besides Duane?

In addition I am aware of two of the "Moms" who claim to have sons who were molested, and I got the info other than from DS, or 3abn about this. As a result, I have serious doubts questions and concerns about those claims. It is hard to trust someone who admits that son and her both lied about in past and even defended TS. The son is still not making any claims r allegations, just the Mom. I tried to hint and then outright tell Pickle he needed to do more than just accept their claims and that he needed to get all the background and both sides, before running with stories as if are proven fact, but as far as I can tell that doesn't suit his purpose.

I also tried to introduce myself give reasons for my inquiries when attempting to get hold of the Church of God board in Dunn Loring Virginia and ask them about the allegations by Pastor Glenn Dryden, which Pickle has published, and find out if they were investigating further or was any Church discipline or actions pending or being considered in regards to, and they got intercepted and I recieved email replies from Glenn Dryden instead giving me the run around, etc and making rules about things he needed before he would let me contact his board, or give me any names of anyone I could talk to besides him. He btw told me nothing nada zero zip zilch.

Pickle and Joy issued a subpoena to Glenn Dryden some time back now, asking for all, but don't seem to have info despite that... I may upload that subpoena here in files section if interested.

Anyway, that's why I am questioning who it is and what it is you are going by here.

Blessings...

[odie1962]

am wondering about your statement that you believe those who have come forward...

I personally don't know who these people are with the exception of Duane Clem back in 1985 or 86, and, a minor in the mid eighties who's Mom made a complaint to the police department. There is a bunch of he said he said attached to that, but the bottom line is the police investigated and did not find him credible, and the DA knows and found nothing to act on, and the Church of God suspended TS's credentials pending the results of that investigation, and after words TS continued to Pastor both that Church of God in Illinois and the other Church of God in Virginia.

I have copied the info and will have to go back and find it. It has been some time since I read this. A bunch of he said /he said is typical. Police investigations that lack enough to go forward with is very common
A victim that realizes the grueling situation he is now in and retracts is not uncommon either. As to TS continuing to pastor I can give you several within our denomination that have continued to pastor for up to thrity years before finally stopped by someone. All the while complaints have been made.
What I don't find credible is that TS was old enough to go thru collega,marry and have family and then suddenly one morning decided he wanted to engage in this behaviour. TS letter alone is indication enough that something was very wrong with his conduct. The bottom line is, I don't care if it appears completely consensual. Those like TS bear the burden of not dishonoring their God or profession . If a party came along and suggested, initiated this behaviour the responsibility still is on TS. Most that come forward with allegations of this type are not lying, most are treated as such. Even when there is no he said/she/heaid the one making the allegations are suspect. If not of lying then what their true motive could possbily be for coming forward and casting a shadow on the good name of the church. I do believe Duane Clem without a doubt and TS is a man that I would not have wanted near my sons and now my grandsons. He does not belong in a position of trust where he would have easy acess to grooming another victim

In addition I am aware of two of the "Moms" who claim to have sons who were molested, and I got the info other than from DS, or 3abn about this. As a result, I have serious doubts questions and concerns about those claims. It is hard to trust someone who admits that son and her both lied about in past and even defended TS. The son is still not making any claims r allegations, just the Mom. I tried to hint and then outright tell Pickle he needed to do more than just accept their claims and that he needed to get all the background and both sides, before running with stories as if are proven fact, but as far as I can tell that doesn't suit his purpose.

Many things concerning allegations of sexual abuse do not make sense to those that have never had to wear those shoes.Bob and Gailon cannot be dealt with using hints. Bob's point of reference I believe is gailon,if gailon speaks it is gospel. Unless a victim is strong enough asking for details is not going to be productive.
I was not the one abused and it took everything I had and then some to come forward to protect my son and his family. Had it not been my son and granddaughters there is a very strong liklihood I would not have taken the steps I did. You are looking at this from the prespective you have and that does not work in this

I also tried to introduce myself give reasons for my inquiries when attempting to get hold of the Church of God board in Dunn Loring Virginia and ask them about the allegations by Pastor Glenn Dryden, which Pickle has published, and find out if they were investigating further or was any Church discipline or actions pending or being considered in regards to, and they got intercepted and I recieved email replies from Glenn Dryden instead giving me the run around, etc and making rules about things he needed before he would let me contact his board, or give me any names of anyone I could talk to besides him. He btw told me nothing nada zero zip zilch.

I would bet if you were to introduce yourself to the MN conference and request this type of information on my last name you wuld get zero,ziltch,nada. Nothing that would give you a hint of six years of hell. NOT A WORD

[Breezy]

2. Here below are two quotes by you today. Could you explain them so I can understand them? At present it looks like you are saying exactly the opposite:

A"At one time we had a major case of child sexual abuse. The act is not what I am referring to or accusing anyone of molesting small children, notwithstanding that which is obvious TS did".


The act is not what I am referring to or accusing anyone. What else would you like me to say except I am not accusing anyone, understanding that TS himself agreed he had inappropriate conduct with a young man."

But you say "anyone of molesting SMALL CHILDREN, notwithstanding that which is obvious TS did." Ts did what? It sounds like you said he molested small children. I'm no English major but I do know a little about sentence structure. I believe you when you say this is NOT what you were saying but still point it out so you can see why I took it the way I did.

I did not accuse TS of molesting children,it was vulneable young men.

3. I didn't say you were accusing 3abn of molesting children. Are YOU reading what I'm saying? I was speaking ONLY of TS, not 3abn.

A. I believe TS is guilty as I believe those that have come forward. I also believe that nothing can be done at this point. If it were still possible the victms would still take the proper legal course and many are not able to do that.

Why didn't the "victims" take proper legal recourse at the time this supposedly happened? I'm sure there are a lot of excuses but none will work as far as I'm concerned.



4. No one has denied that TS and Duane Clem did wrong. They both apologized to each other and forgave each other. And although Duane Clem was an adult, it was still wrong--on his part and on the part of TS. But this doesn't make TS guilty of child molestation charges. He is innocent until PROVEN guilty in a court of law.

A. Again ...The act is not what I am referring to or accusing anyone of molesting small children, notwithstanding that which is obvious TS did".

Now do you understand the part that says I am not accusing anyone of molesting small children.
In our state what TS did is a felony and people like TS have had free acommodations,compliments of the state of MN. Personally I am all in favor of that happening to anyone that uses their positions of trust to committ acts like this.
TS is not innocent of sexual conduct inappropriate sexual conduct. He is not one to be put in a position of trust again where he has acess to those that are vulnerable to his type of "advances"

5. There is no such "groupie syndrome" going on with those who are standing up for the integrity of 3abn.

A. Both sides have their groupie's ,rushing in at every statement declaring their side INNOCENT.
Every person for DS knows beyond a doubt he is innocent.
As gailon and Bob are declared innocent from those that follow them. There are many declaring how well they knew the Shelton's and who did wrong first. You don't know unless DS and LS tell you. Being in their home gives you acess to see what they wanted others to see. Yet declare you do. Both are blaming the other

This is why there is a LAWSUIT. This way there is a legal "third party" to check evidence and make a decision.


6. Yes, what Joy is doing is wrong and needs to stop now. I believe that is why there is a lawsuit in process. 3abn is wanting to stop these men. 3abn will win this lawsuit


Many are feeling now that Gailon JOy needs to be stopped. Because of him and his nasty, vicious attacks anyone that happens to cross his path in this gets trampled
On the other hand, you are not the judge and jury over who wins this and stranger things have happened, especialy when people are so truly blind to those they support


Breezy speaking below in red (for some reason it will not print in blue)
I never said I was the "Judge and Jury" in this lawsuit. Why would I think such a thing? Everyone knows it will be a REAL Judge who will decide the case. But I know this is the Lord's work and He will save it. THAT is how I know the end of all this. But it won't happen without work from us.

Odie speaking:
The example I used of a power driven woman causing the guilty party to go free as everything was so tainted it was impossible to know what to believe coming from the children. I think it is likely that will happen in this and I think Gailon will use everything he can to keep this going because he likes feeling powerful and important. I am not sure Bob will stay thru the end. He does have a family to support as a father and provider.