mrst53 wrote:I sat in Church this morning and we sang"Victory in Jesus". I had a real forgiveness for Tommy. We are all covered by the Blood of Jesus, if Tommy has asked for, forgiveness(if he is guilty).
I have asked before and no one was sure on the other site, but I am concerned about Tommy's health. I am not spying for anyone,I just want to know how to pray. I believe that when we pray, we should be specific.
Hi, I merged your new topic with this one to make all easier to follow. I am sorry for the delay in answering here. I have been very majorly preoccupied and know others are too right now with work and home. I think Generally we try and login or read all here and there on a regular basis, but most of us simply don't have the time or inclination to hang out daily or hourly, so we might be a bit in getting back to things, but will eventually.
Honestly, I hate this problem! I hate this topic! I want nothing more than to ignore it because it hurts me and others, and it's unpleasant and it causes so much anger and judging and misjudging. But no one else is answering here and I think you deserve an answer... So, I am going to be as blunt and straightforward as I know to be although I know others hate that, or avoid it. Why? I have to do, and say, as my conscience dictates, and really? I am not sure if even Tommy or his family, or anyone else at 3ABN agrees with me here. I do know I love them all but that can't be my main concern, and I do know that they at least understand and accept and love me for that, even as I know my brethren have to act and speak as their conscience dictates even tho maybe disagreeing with me, and actually speaking in disagreement because they love me... We all have to be accountable to God and our conscience before we can be accountable to one another imo. I think we can recognize one another along the way, but need to leave it to God to show us the way and lead us on it, and trust he will eventually lead all who love him and want to follow him to the same destination
Of course I do read at the other forum, ( even tho I have been permanently banned by Snoopy due to her posting all her threats against me and following it up with phone calls to my family and me, saying the same exactthings, and me making that known
) so I saw where you were concerned we might think you a spy and not answer your questions due to that. Please put that out of your head. That isn't a concern here, ok? Reason being the posts with questions and answers are public so any are free to read and see them. No spies required. lol
Ok, before moving on. I would like to say I am in a bit of disagreement about your forgiving Tommy, if he has repented, and if he is guilty, although I do appreciate you adding those "ifs", as that is more refreshing than you probably realize.
The thing is to my way of thinking we don't need to forgive someone unless we consider them guilty in regards to what we are forgiving them for. I understand you might feel that way, but for myself I don't forgive Tommy as I have nothing to forgive him for. My understanding is that Tommy wrestled with homosexual issues and , yes he sinned, as he gave into his temptations,and it caused problems for him and for others, but he has long since confessed, apologized, tried to make amends, gone to counseling voluntarily to get help he needed and moved on. I figure the forgiveness was already given by those he offended which includes his wife, and it was hard on her.. But most importantly he was forgiven by God, so his past is gone, just like mine. PRAISE GOD, right? If his isn't forgiven,then I am in serious trouble, and so are you, and so are we all, for if Jesus blood hasn't cleansed him and covered him, well then it hasn't done that for us either. I do know and acknowledge there are accusations and allegations floating around regarding pedophilia, but the thing is, there is no proof of anything, and only this recent case has been documented, and we are called to prove all things, and to not misjudge and to love and have mercy to others, as that is what we are given. I admit I have questions about the case. MANY... I also know Tommy to be a man who despite what you hear has a conscience and mans up to his wrongs, as he did to his own shame and embarrassment when it came to his relationship with Duane Clem etc. He is in very sad health and his time is short, but despite that and knowing his eternal life and future depends on being right with God, he offers no apologies to these two men, and no confessions to them, to his family or to his friends, and he has in fact proclaimed his innocence to them privately. That to me, far outweighs a public guilty plea, and although I understand the reasons and the fear which causes that, I also acknowledge that when and if he does plead guilty, in the eyes of the world, and the earthly courts and law, HE WILL BE GUILTY, and I will no longer defend him when it comes to these two men as I feel he forfeits that right in my eyes and in my thinking. I love him, I support and I pray for him, as well as for Alex Walker and Dennis Turley, and although I respect his right to do what he thinks best for he and his family, and will fight tooth and nail to preserve his right to do so, I myself think it the wrong decision and choice. I tend to be verbose so excuse me, but I just feel the need to explain why I do not feel the need to forgive him as you do. None of his sins were against me or mine, and I am not God, and I think he knows what needs to be forgiven or not better than I.
Now in regards to his health... It's poor. VERY POOR. It has been for a long time. I truly and honestly believe (and I know I am far from alone) that jail-time for him would be the equivalent of a death sentence, and that if the current case went to trial there is a very good chance he might never live to see the end of it. Obviously if my days were numbered I would not want to spend them in litigation or involved with civil matters or worried about those who hated or accused me unfairly. I would leave them to God. I would be much more concerned with being with those I was close to and bonded with and who loved me too. I would be much more concerned I believe with making sure I was right with God and with my fellow man, and doing all I could to make my last days meaningful and worthwhile for others and myself. I think my list of priorities would become much more streamlined and shorter than it is now, as only what truly mattered would have precedence, and that is why I understand the plea bargain, even tho I don't believe I myself would accept one if I were in his place, but the thing is I am not in his place, or in his family's place and until and if I ever am, I can not say with certainty what I would do...
To be more specific about Tommy's health. The Shelton family has a genetic weakness which is inherited, leading to blocked veins and arteries and heart problems, etc. Tommy's father, who by all reports was a good man, a good father and much loved and was struck down very young due to that. He died as they were just learning or not yet able to stand alone. Yet they all learned to do so as they also had a good Christian mother and were grounded in a home where the love of God and faith was a staple ingredient. They also learned that none of them are immune to that same genetic weakness and are subject to it by inheritance,
not due to their sins, but due to the sin and sickness in this sad world. Personally I understand how frustrating our life and lot can be, but applaud them all for choosing to follow God, and to follow his health and life plan and praise him for his mercies and miracles rather than railing against him and blaming him.
Tommy, for example, has had multiple life threatening crisis, multiple bypasses and multiple surgeries and procedures and stints and he is only alive today by the grace of God, and while his enemies have constantly proclaimed them all his fault and said "He deserves it". he alone gives God the glory. I like that. Anyone reading or knowing of his case history can't help but acknowledge that in my opinion, unless they don't want to acknowledge it... For multiple miracles are also in evidence.
The thing is he is weak. he has lived beyond his projected life span, way beyond. His nephew revealed he can't even carry groceries into the house without a problem. He very recently had a blood clot requiring hospitalization which threatened his very life and the drugs to treat it did as well as they were detrimental to the conditions he already has, but not as detrimental as the untreated blood clot would be.. He is on medication for symptoms but when he was arrested they took them away from him, and when he needed them they refused to give them to him, or allow him to see the nurse etc. He almost died before he got help, and his family and he are scared for him. I totally understand that. It breaks my heart. It is not right, it is not fair, but i understand reality. An accused child molester is hated almost more than a convicted murderer as even many of those despise them, and the truth is most don't need proof, they just need an accuser to pronounce them guilty, never mind that false accusations and the reasons for such have existed since sin entered this world. You know what though? He continues to witness for God. and someday the stories I can't tell now will be revealed by the Almighty, and by those who were saved due to his witness and example. ( sadly I don't see that those accusing him will ever experience that...)
Anyway the bottom line here for me is that all prayers are coveted on Tommy's behalf as God hears all, but any which are unrighteous and unjust as in judgmental and false will pass right over his head, except to condemn the person judging without mercy and without facts and evidence, as that will be recorded against them and not the one they misjudge...
The basic problem here is that Bob Pickle and others, lacking evidence and proof against DS and 3ABN, have chosen to take allegations against Tommy as evidence of their fault and guilt, but it isn't and can't be as no proof of that exists. Even if and notice I do say "IF" proof of Tommy's guilt exists. Recently on adventtalk, Pickle himself questioned why a concerned and family member would ask, "What happened?" or pursue it by saying " I just want to know what happened". Pickle the major accuser, had never asked Tommy's accusers that, and stated that himself while asking if that kind of question was normal. Give me a break! That is not only normal, but necessary! Don't be saying you have statements which condemn someone if you haven't done so, or verified anything!
Many of us hesitate to give any updates about Tommy's health as it always engenders attacks and criticisms and we don't want to enable that. It's not right, and it's hurtful to all who love and know him and just adds fuel to the fire... his accusers
ALWAYS post " "WE need proof that this occurred!" "Tommy is suffering, well good", but also claim" anytime anything occurs that Tommy or others claim there is a health problem just to excuse his guilt to make all feel sorry for him".. What follows from them is always "But even if true WE DON"T FEEL SORRY FOR HIM, He DESERVED AND CAUSED IT HIMSELF
or It's God's Judgment so we are right"
OR "no matter what you say, allegations exist, and that proves he is guilty and his health doesn't excuse or change that!
or if he wasn't guilty there wouldn't be so many accusations!"
OR" if he wasn't guilty of sin he would have no physical illness!" I am quoting here, something that made me, personally feel physically sick when I read it today :
"DS mind maybe too far on other side to even think that he sins. Btw, I heard that he has had a couple of heart operations and bad health himself like TS. I did not know that until a few days ago. and now TS wife too. Hearts and minds must not be working together!"
The truth is all of the Shelton children, DS, TS and siblings have overcame a lot, some are living on borrowed time due to God's grace, and Tommy's poor wife has gone through a lot also and overcome so much and now she needs a pacemaker and her enemies say it is because she is damned and guilty? THAT IS NOT EVEN RIGHT. Those who say so, as this person has done repeatedly cannot possibly know her, or my same Lord imo...
I hate and despise that kind of thinking! So judgmental and beyond what we are ever called as Christians to do, but that is soooo typical! Many are ill and suffering in this world and of course it is not due to their own sin, just look at the children and the innocent! It is heartbreaking, and it is not right! I think it was made abundantly clear that false accusers would claim that illness and infirmity was the individuals fault, but I think God's son and our Creator made the truth also abundantly clear in John 9:
Jhn 9:1 And as [Jesus] passed by, he saw a man which was blind from [his] birth.
Jhn 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
Jhn 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
Jhn 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
Jhn 9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.
Jhn 9:6 When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay,
Jhn 9:7 And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.
Jhn 9:8 The neighbours therefore, and they which before had seen him that he was blind, said, Is not this he that sat and begged?
Jhn 9:9 Some said, This is he: others [said], He is like him: [but] he said, I am [he].
Jhn 9:10 Therefore said they unto him, How were thine eyes opened?
Jhn 9:11 He answered and said, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight.
Jhn 9:12 Then said they unto him, Where is he? He said, I know not.
Jhn 9:13 They brought to the Pharisees him that aforetime was blind.
Jhn 9:14 And it was the sabbath day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes.
Jhn 9:15 Then again the Pharisees also asked him how he had received his sight. He said unto them, He put clay upon mine eyes, and I washed, and do see.
Jhn 9:16 Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them.
Jhn 9:17 They say unto the blind man again, What sayest thou of him, that he hath opened thine eyes? He said, He is a prophet.
Jhn 9:18 But the Jews did not believe concerning him, that he had been blind, and received his sight, until they called the parents of him that had received his sight.
Jhn 9:19 And they asked them, saying, Is this your son, who ye say was born blind? how then doth he now see?
Jhn 9:20 His parents answered them and said, We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind:
Jhn 9:21 But by what means he now seeth, we know not; or who hath opened his eyes, we know not: he is of age; ask him: he shall speak for himself.
Jhn 9:22 These [words] spake his parents, because they feared the Jews: for the Jews had agreed already, that if any man did confess that he was Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue.
Jhn 9:23 Therefore said his parents, He is of age; ask him.
Jhn 9:24 Then again called they the man that was blind, and said unto him, Give God the praise: we know that this man is a sinner.
Jhn 9:25 He answered and said, Whether he be a sinner [or no], I know not: one thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see.
Jhn 9:26 Then said they to him again, What did he to thee? how opened he thine eyes?
Jhn 9:27 He answered them, I have told you already, and ye did not hear: wherefore would ye hear [it] again? will ye also be his disciples?
Jhn 9:28 Then they reviled him, and said, Thou art his disciple; but we are Moses' disciples.
Jhn 9:29 We know that God spake unto Moses: [as for] this [fellow], we know not from whence he is.
Jhn 9:30 The man answered and said unto them, Why herein is a marvellous thing, that ye know not from whence he is, and [yet] he hath opened mine eyes.
Jhn 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
Jhn 9:32 Since the world began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind.
Jhn 9:33 If this man were not of God, he could do nothing.
Jhn 9:34 They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they cast him out.
Jhn 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
Jhn 9:36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?
Jhn 9:37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.
Jhn 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
Jhn 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
Jhn 9:40 And [some] of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Jhn 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
I believe that! although I also certainly believe all make their own choices, and many make their bed and have to lay in it, although many lay in a bed not of their making until Jesus says " rise, pick it up, and walk". Certainly accusations and blame cause stress and add to it whether guilty or innocent, and certainly when praying for the healing of anyone we should stress the need of repentance and doing things as God calls, to facilitate that. BUT, and this is a big BUT imho, after pointing that out, I believe we need to avoid judgments regarding salvation and Christianity etc, and leave those things between God and each individual, and Never think that because we hold an opinion of judgment that God does also. He leads. He knows who are his. His ways are not ours, his thoughts are not ours, and He alone is Merciful and Righteous and Judges accordingly. That is his job and never ours imo.
So, I, knowing the Shelton family, their characters and their lives, do not say: " well you know they earned there problems and its God's judgment on them" or add "it is because they don't agree with Bob Pickle, Gailon Joy or any of the axe grinders who hate 3ABN...". I can't! it's so hateful to me. Our God is love, how can we be that without following his example? The thing is, I just love all the Shelton siblings. I can't recognize any truth in the accusations against them when I compare them with what I know of them and the circumstances etc, and I know God loves and knows them too. So far from saying their inherited illness is a judgment of God, I look at their prognosis according to the world and their infirmities and weaknesses which are inherited, and the fact that Tommy and all of his siblings still live and still proclaim their faith in God and his love to all, and don't give up despite all, and the fact that they all continue to outlive and live beyond their prognosis, and I say Hallelujah! They have lived past all that was prophesied and diagnosed by the world and that is not due to a curse but is obviously due to God's grace and is a blessing and a testimony. I subject to you that perhaps, Tommy also has a testimony and work to do. He is very ill, and near death, but he lives.
So in regard to Tommy's health. It is not good, and he is living on borrowed time, and all due to God's grace imho. Please keep praying for him, and for all, ok? God knows best, and Jesus imo said it best "Nevertheless not according to my will but thine"
I am praying for Tommy and I am thanking you for that also, but I am asking for God's will , and just ask that you do the same, for him, and for me, and for yourself as well as for all others.
Admittedly that is just my thinking, but you have to know God has a plan, and all is according to his will and glory. That is as it should be.
Let's just pray for that knowing that he will prevail and make all known.
I can't wait...
Blessings...
