Thank you for the welcome. I've already shared information about Attorney Tom but wanted to tell you all how good it is that Tommy Shelton has such excellent representation and how great it is that Attorney Tom is willing to represent those who are accused but innocent. It is unfortunate that in today's society there are those who can accuse those they dislike or have a grudge against with this kind of unhappy public attention. Our prayers are with Tommy that God will sustain him and help him through this trial.
Remember the story of Joseph with Potiphar's wife? We are told to study the life of Joseph because this could happen to us, to be unfairly charged and put in prison. But God rescued Joseph in due time and blessed him. He will rescue His people who are faithful to Him as well.
Tommy Shelton
Moderators: Breezy, Lilly, Truth
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princessdi
- Posts: 53
- Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:39 pm America/Denver
Re: John C. Manly
You all never fail to make me smile. Ok so, first of all what and whose is this website does this link take you? It looks a little suspect to me......MaybeThat'sJustMe
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Cynthia
- Posts: 618
- Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:00 am America/Denver
Re: John C. Manly
Smile. I don't know who's website it is, but even without the owner's agenda, some of the quotes from Manley seem legit. If they are? he has said some outrageous and even false things and even been sanctioned for it. I just found that interesting as after reading about him on AT, I expected to hear next about how he flew into court wearing a red cape and tights...princessdi wrote:You all never fail to make me smile. Ok so, first of all what and whose is this website does this link take you? It looks a little suspect to me......MaybeThat'sJustMe
and of course I have questions about why and even how he was retained as I posted.~ Cindy
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Cynthia
- Posts: 618
- Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:00 am America/Denver
Re: John C. Manly
That's a great story, and I love the one also where Joseph's brothers wronged him, and after all, his father sent him a message asking him to forgive them, and I just love what Joseph said to them. It has encouraged me many times during adversity and problems and I have shared it with others even more times.Lilly wrote:Thank you for the welcome. I've already shared information about Attorney Tom but wanted to tell you all how good it is that Tommy Shelton has such excellent representation and how great it is that Attorney Tom is willing to represent those who are accused but innocent. It is unfortunate that in today's society there are those who can accuse those they dislike or have a grudge against with this kind of unhappy public attention. Our prayers are with Tommy that God will sustain him and help him through this trial.
Remember the story of Joseph with Potiphar's wife? We are told to study the life of Joseph because this could happen to us, to be unfairly charged and put in prison. But God rescued Joseph in due time and blessed him. He will rescue His people who are faithful to Him as well.
Gen 50:19-21 "Fear not: for am I in the place of God? But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive. Now therefore fear ye not: I will nourish you, and your little ones. And he comforted them, and spake kindly unto them. "
Joseph's entire life is the perfect example to me of Rom 8:28:" And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."
I am glad Tommy has a good lawyer also. I have been praying for him and his entire family, and also all the others involved, including his accusers, their families and the, prosecutor, lawyers, judge and jury. We have a God of miracles and I know he answers prayers and that he has a plan here for all.
~ Cindy
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Truth
- Posts: 149
- Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:09 am America/Denver
Re: John C. Manly
Cynthia--that was a beautiful way to put it. Yes, we must pray for everyone involved, including the accusers and everyone. God knows each and every heart and all circumstances and He will work this out.
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Breezy
- Posts: 166
- Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:41 pm America/Denver
Tommy Shelton
Tommy Shelton has accepted a plea bargain when there was no other alternative that was acceptable. First off, even if innocent (I believe he is innocent) he could very well be put in prison anyway, which we know he would never live through because of his serious heart condition. I doubt he would last a week in prison. It was a very difficult decision, but it was decided that the only thing they could do was accept the plea bargain with a guilty plea/put on sexual offender list. They were hoping to get a plea bargain that would be "no contest" since he is innocent of the charges, and not having his name on a sex-offender list but the prosecution would not agree to this.
The only way to stay out of prison was to say he was guilty and to allow his name be put on the list. How sad is this. No money, broken in health--only just wanting to be with his family. He is retirement age anyway and so this was the best deal offered.
We believe this is an answer to prayer. God is so good. He knows the hearts of all involved. We know those on AT will NEVER accept this explanation but it doesn't matter. It is the truth. God knows it is the TRUTH!
The only way to stay out of prison was to say he was guilty and to allow his name be put on the list. How sad is this. No money, broken in health--only just wanting to be with his family. He is retirement age anyway and so this was the best deal offered.
We believe this is an answer to prayer. God is so good. He knows the hearts of all involved. We know those on AT will NEVER accept this explanation but it doesn't matter. It is the truth. God knows it is the TRUTH!
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Truth
- Posts: 149
- Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:09 am America/Denver
Re: Tommy Shelton
I am sorry this was the only way out of this mess. Looks like the only options were prison which means molestation by others and probable death from a serious heart condition, and taking the only plea bargain offered. This is very unfortunate.
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Echo
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:05 pm America/Denver
Re: Tommy Shelton
Option number three would be to simply go to trial and allow the jury to consider the evidence. If he is confident in his innocence why not simply trust his future to the Lord and go to trial? If I was elderly and had a bad heart but knew I was innocent, there is NO WAY I would accept a plea bargain that would keep me out of prison but require that I lie about my guilt.
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proffaberf451
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:03 am America/Denver
Re: Tommy Shelton
There are numerous options here. What most don't know is what the actual conversations are that are occurring between the legal teams for both sides. It is interesting that Duane Clem speaks with such a voice of certainty, remembering that he isn't involved in this case other then at the level he has injected himself into it. How does he have the immediate inside track to information such as a plea agreement? He has probably become GAJ/RJP's right hand henchman and it is alleged that this case is only taking place because GAJ/RJP have been working hard for years to convince, cajole, maybe even pay individuals (the money probably coming from the so-called doctor from Norway) to "come forward" and make accusations against Tommy that would lead a prosecutor to file charges.
IF the plea agreement is, as presented by these individuals not a part of this case, it is interesting that no one has mentioned that this keeps the "victims" off the stand where their integrity and character could be defined for the jury to consider while rendering a verdict. There is much information floating around that the two individuals have a record of lying and making false accusations. That doesn't mean they are lying here - but unless they can be seen as credible, their testimony would have to be weighed against their revealed characters. A plea agreement is likely a more advantageous course of action for the prosecution. The two sides trade the information they have and the prosecution is well aware that their "witnesses" might very well harm the case as opposed to providing the "last straw."
It is conceivable that going to trial would be the best course of action for Tommy. It would provide him the opportunity to dispel the accusations against him. However, one never can be assured of the integrity of the jury and certainly a defense has to consider the potential for the accusers to commit perjury and seeing the jury be influenced by those lies. All trials are like a chess game and you have to play to the strongest course of action leading to the most palatable result. In looking at the options, Tommy and his team had to consider all the possible out comes.
- A conviction with jail time, probation, registration as a sex offender
- A conviction with jail time and probation
- A conviction with jail time and registration as a sex offender
- A conviction with jail time
- A conviction with probation and registration as a sex offender
- A conviction with probation
- No conviction
My guess is that the prosecution, which doesn't represent the victims at all, set it's sights on the first choice. Of course, they also knew that the chances they would get that outcome were not real significant and considered what they thought they might get in a plea agreement. The prosecution doesn't want to go to trial because it is too risky - they could completely lose and prosecutors need some sort of conviction (job security). They need to secure some kind of punishment, so they offer what they think they can scare the accused into. There is a psychological advantage for the prosecution in a criminal trial because the defendant can't win anything from the prosecution, as would happen in a civil trial. So, Tommy's team had to weigh the realities of the current moment: Can Tommy's health stand a trial? Can Tommy pay for a trial? Does Tommy want to tie up his immediate future in a trial? Answer those questions provides a basis for deciding whether or not to accept a plea agreement. Nothing is set in stone until both sides appear in court and make their plea agreement known to the judge. Even at that point, the judge can order the case to trial any way by rejecting the agreement.
The interesting twist over on RJP's den of deception (aka Advent Talk) is the newly blossoming talk of a civil suit, interesting because the alleged "victims" posting there have asserted that they just wanted justice and not to destroy Tommy and his family. Now, it appears as if (probably as a result of prompting from GAJ/RJP) the dollar signs have hypnotized them. No longer do they want justice, they want money, a very sad development considering that they claim the title Christian, and deride any one who doesn't buy into their swill. It appears the true nature of their character has surfaced - selfishness. Their accusations were never about justice, never about putting to rest old demons and moving forward (which, if they had sought God long ago would have happened), this action was always about revenge (for GAJ/RJP) and money for the others. If their is a civil action, I wonder what percentage of the take will go to GAJ/RJP?
A very sad day for God as he watches these claimed followers of His behave like hyenas feeding on their fellow brother in Christ.
(edited to insure I don't cause Mr. Thompson any headaches)
IF the plea agreement is, as presented by these individuals not a part of this case, it is interesting that no one has mentioned that this keeps the "victims" off the stand where their integrity and character could be defined for the jury to consider while rendering a verdict. There is much information floating around that the two individuals have a record of lying and making false accusations. That doesn't mean they are lying here - but unless they can be seen as credible, their testimony would have to be weighed against their revealed characters. A plea agreement is likely a more advantageous course of action for the prosecution. The two sides trade the information they have and the prosecution is well aware that their "witnesses" might very well harm the case as opposed to providing the "last straw."
It is conceivable that going to trial would be the best course of action for Tommy. It would provide him the opportunity to dispel the accusations against him. However, one never can be assured of the integrity of the jury and certainly a defense has to consider the potential for the accusers to commit perjury and seeing the jury be influenced by those lies. All trials are like a chess game and you have to play to the strongest course of action leading to the most palatable result. In looking at the options, Tommy and his team had to consider all the possible out comes.
- A conviction with jail time, probation, registration as a sex offender
- A conviction with jail time and probation
- A conviction with jail time and registration as a sex offender
- A conviction with jail time
- A conviction with probation and registration as a sex offender
- A conviction with probation
- No conviction
My guess is that the prosecution, which doesn't represent the victims at all, set it's sights on the first choice. Of course, they also knew that the chances they would get that outcome were not real significant and considered what they thought they might get in a plea agreement. The prosecution doesn't want to go to trial because it is too risky - they could completely lose and prosecutors need some sort of conviction (job security). They need to secure some kind of punishment, so they offer what they think they can scare the accused into. There is a psychological advantage for the prosecution in a criminal trial because the defendant can't win anything from the prosecution, as would happen in a civil trial. So, Tommy's team had to weigh the realities of the current moment: Can Tommy's health stand a trial? Can Tommy pay for a trial? Does Tommy want to tie up his immediate future in a trial? Answer those questions provides a basis for deciding whether or not to accept a plea agreement. Nothing is set in stone until both sides appear in court and make their plea agreement known to the judge. Even at that point, the judge can order the case to trial any way by rejecting the agreement.
The interesting twist over on RJP's den of deception (aka Advent Talk) is the newly blossoming talk of a civil suit, interesting because the alleged "victims" posting there have asserted that they just wanted justice and not to destroy Tommy and his family. Now, it appears as if (probably as a result of prompting from GAJ/RJP) the dollar signs have hypnotized them. No longer do they want justice, they want money, a very sad development considering that they claim the title Christian, and deride any one who doesn't buy into their swill. It appears the true nature of their character has surfaced - selfishness. Their accusations were never about justice, never about putting to rest old demons and moving forward (which, if they had sought God long ago would have happened), this action was always about revenge (for GAJ/RJP) and money for the others. If their is a civil action, I wonder what percentage of the take will go to GAJ/RJP?
A very sad day for God as he watches these claimed followers of His behave like hyenas feeding on their fellow brother in Christ.
(edited to insure I don't cause Mr. Thompson any headaches)
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Cynthia
- Posts: 618
- Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:00 am America/Denver
Re: Tommy Shelton
Interesting, from all. My opinion is that TS should plead innocent, but admit I don't know all. I do tend to think God's people need to walk forward in faith and never in fear. We may not always see what is ahead of us, but he always does, and is the best guide.
I also think it very interesting and significant though that the Prosecutor has repeatedly changed the charges (ages, dates) and reduced the charges. It has gone from sodomy, (victims statement didn't support that) to molestation to now it is just a verbal proposition. The facts and statements against Tommy, if true shouldn't be subject to so much change in my opinion. This leads me to conclude the prosecution's case and the plea bargain offered after allegedly consulting the victims, is not so strong or assured as they have made out. Just my opinion
In any case, I do not consider adventtalk the defining edge as far as reporting the facts goes and after reading all their posts and gloating and talk of civil suits, and attempts to bring DS and 3ABN into it all, wonder whether they aren't just counting their chickens before they are hatched. Certainly their agenda and goal is being loudly proclaimed. There is still a week to go before the scheduled court date. I guess we wait and see...
I also think it very interesting and significant though that the Prosecutor has repeatedly changed the charges (ages, dates) and reduced the charges. It has gone from sodomy, (victims statement didn't support that) to molestation to now it is just a verbal proposition. The facts and statements against Tommy, if true shouldn't be subject to so much change in my opinion. This leads me to conclude the prosecution's case and the plea bargain offered after allegedly consulting the victims, is not so strong or assured as they have made out. Just my opinion
In any case, I do not consider adventtalk the defining edge as far as reporting the facts goes and after reading all their posts and gloating and talk of civil suits, and attempts to bring DS and 3ABN into it all, wonder whether they aren't just counting their chickens before they are hatched. Certainly their agenda and goal is being loudly proclaimed. There is still a week to go before the scheduled court date. I guess we wait and see...
~ Cindy