Adventtalk Deletions

[Pat Williams]

Below is what was censured by Artiste for 3ABN_Defender. This was 3ABN_Defenders reply #88 at AT.

Who is "he" here? Danny Shelton?

No. I am sorry "he" is you, Johann. They kept telling you it was about 3ABN and God's ministry, and doing the right thing but you kept making it all about Linda, and how Danny was wrong and how Linda had been wronged, so had to believe they were lying and it was really all about Danny as far as they were concerned, in order to keep justifying yourself and your view.

Instead of the post above in blue, Artiste put in RED LETTERS after removing 3ABN_Defender's post:

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MODERATOR HAT ON

It appears that some are not aware of the administrative position that Johann holds at the Advent Talk site. Please show appropriate respect to that position. Failure to do so may affect your further posting privileges at Advent Talk.

MODERATOR HAT OFF

My comment about this: What is interesting is that they demand supposed "respect" for Johann but he himself can be disrespectful all he wants towards others in what he writes, thereby not representing the SDA Church as he should, since he is a retired SDA minister. It's like DO WHAT WE SAY but NOT WHAT WE DO. Just great eh?

Here is the part Artiste removed from the above post.

He was supposed to represent the 3ABN ministry in Europe and help promote the ministry and God's work. Obviously he could not do so when he chose personality over principles. You cannot represent and promote a ministry while you are criticizing, finding fault with and accusing them because you prefer one employee over another and are acting and thinking with bias and partiality.

That conflict is what caused him the loss of his job, it is what caused him to give bad advice, advice that a SDA minister, especially one with 50 yrs experience shouldn't give, such as not following the church manual on conflicts and resolutions and discipline in the church.

When he lost his objectivity he went down the wrong path in the opinion of many, myself included. He wasn't able to be objective or look at all subjectively then and I don't trust him to do that now.

Truth,
I think the difference between their thinking and ours is that we try to recognize there is a right and wrong way to say things, and so we may moderate "how" things are said and the methods used by those we disagree with, but we try to allow their idea, belief, view,to be expressed, so that we can answer and rebut it or whatever whereas they are more concerned about "what is said" regardless of "how it is said" Their thinking allows them to condone and allow the rudest and most disrespectful comments from those they agree with and yet delete any comment or reply that they disagree with and don't want to hear no matter how respectfully or carefully we try to post as they deem all such disagreement with themselves as "inappropriate".

In reply to your post above, here is the next reply I posted to Artiste which was also deleted:

3ABN_Defender
Re: Motion re: MidCountry Bank records
« Reply #100 on: February 12, 2010, 10:52:36 AM »

Johann, for being a retired Pastor, what you said above was really not very representative.

Junebug, Pastor Johann has spent 50 years of ministry in the Seventh-day Adventist church in seven different countries; he has the perspective to make valid observations about what he observed going on at 3ABN while he was there.

He certainly has a right to give his point of view and opinion on what he personally saw or experienced. I have never had a problem with that. As to whether it is valid or not, well that depends on whether the facts support it, and looking at what he has to say in context. One must also consider what all (not just Johann) observed and experienced and what their testimony is about those same things.

My problem with Johann's testimony is that he really has very little to say about what he observed while at 3abn, as he was very rarely even there. Most of what he has to say came from Linda's telling him these things while he was far off in another country. he says he was in constant contact. So what? He didn't witness these things himself. He simply believed what she told him and acted on it, and repeated them. He also refused to believe Walt Thompson, Danny Shelton or anyone else as he interpreted all they had to say and do based on what Linda and even Darrell Mundall told him.

He has made a case and tells the story of being fired for not saying what Danny Shelton told him to, that may be true to a fault. Danny Shelton told him that it wasn't about he, Danny Shelton and it wasn't about Linda Shelton it was about the ministry of 3ABN and putting the ministry and what was right first. He didn't and still doesn't believe that.

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This is my observation and I believe it to be just as valid and appropriate as Artiste trusts that Johann's is.

3D

MODERATOR HAT ON

It appears that some are not aware of the administrative position that Johann holds at the Advent Talk site. Please show appropriate respect to that position. Failure to do so may affect your further posting privileges at Advent Talk.

MODERATOR HAT OFF
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 01:50:35 PM by Artiste »

My apologies, Artiste. I was aware Johann was a administrator here, but I did not intend to disrespect him in that role or position, and did not realize that speaking of his employment history and the reasons for his separation from the 3ABN ministry or how his activities are viewed in other circles was disrespecting his position here. I still believe I was only exercising my free speech and right to comment and provide the other side of the story.


If you need to block my posting privileges in an effort to keep him on that pedestal. Do what you must. I quite understand your need to do so even while disagreeing with you. You of course can censor me here, but cannot silence me or anyone else, and won't. I will just post it all on the other forum, say it via email, and say it off the internet as well for those who prefer their news unbiased unedited and complete.

My entire reply above was deleted, and replaced with the following:

Edited to remove inappropriate content. Read the rules, 3D!!!

« Last Edit: February 13, 2010, 09:50:53 AM by Snoopy »

[Penny]

Sorry about the link not working.

If you go to http://tax.co.sangamon.il.us/SangamonCo ... /index.jsp, click "search" on the left side and enter parcel #22-18.0-401-001, it will bring up the property tax status info for Linda's home in Springfield. If you click on "assessment details" or "billing details" it confirms that without a doubt this property belongs to her. I was a bit surprised that the property taxes are just under $5,000 per year, but they have been paid in a timely fashion.

[Penny]

Sorry about the link not working.

If you go to http://tax.co.sangamon.il.us/SangamonCo ... /index.jsp, click "search" on the left side and enter parcel #22-18.0-401-001, it will bring up the property tax status info for Linda's home in Springfield. If you click on "assessment details" or "billing details" it confirms that without a doubt this property belongs to her. I was a bit surprised that the property taxes are just under $5,000 per year, but they have been paid in a timely fashion.

The sales details give the following:
1 40 2004 09/17/2004 200,000 0.00 CAPITAL Details

I'm sure when I hit submit that the formatting will change, but it states that the house was last sold on 9-17-2004 for $200,000.

[Penny]

Once again the censors over at the other site are deleting inappropriate content. Can you post here? Thanks.

[Pat Williams]

The last 3 posts I had censored were the following ones.

1.

3ABN_Defender
Senior Member
Posts: 107
Re: Property discussion
« Reply #56 on: Today at 05:50:10 AM »

The documents in the new thread, (which were left out here by those on and running this forum and telling only one side and view of the story) were posted specifically in response to posts here in this thread by childoftheking who claims to want to investigate all and just know the truth, and for Tinka , who wants to know what is documented and known, and read that.

I am not going to argue with your opinions, (or your very revealing laughter in response to that... Henceforth I will not take your claims seriously) You are all responsible for what you do with the information and whether you accept or don't accept it.

I do want to clarify a few things here due to childoftheking's post. The group referred to in this thread as Linda's supporters and defenders who are at the root of all the gossip, slander and attacks against DS and 3ABN is a small core group. In archiving all of the posts from the first ones made on Club Adventist about LS and DS, and then 3ABN to the last ones made on Blacksda in the 3ABN section, they are revealed and identified. Neither I or anyone else can out them here as it would not be allowed so I am only saying that to explain that that reference does not include those who have joined in along the way in attacking and misjudging DS or 3ABN. Those we consider victims. If you were falsely criticized or attacked I can only apologize, but it is very hard to take seriously your claim that "On the various forums Danny's supporters indicated that those of us who had questions about what had happened or what was happening at 3ABN were "On Linda's side or were "Linda's supporters". We were accused of trying to bring down 3ABN or trying to put Linda back in. Not just on this site but on others" precisely because we do have all the forums and posts archived, so I know what they all say. I suggest that the next time you make any such claims you document them and give examples of what you are talking about.

I have said all that I am going to say on this topic.

God bless.

The edited version says:

3ABN_Defender
Senior Member
Posts: 107
Re: Property discussion
« Reply #56 on: Today at 05:50:10 AM »

The documents in the new thread,*********************************************** were posted specifically in response to posts here in this thread by childoftheking who claims to want to investigate all and just know the truth, and for Tinka , who wants to know what is documented and known, and read that....

Edited to remove inappropriate content.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2010, 07:29:58 AM by Snoopy »

This is the part she removed:

(which were left out here by those on and running this forum and telling only one side and view of the story)

[Pat Williams]

2.

3ABN_Defender
Senior Member

Re: And Now for the other side of the story...
« Reply #16 on: Today at 06:13:03 AM »

Mr Matthews,

I both understand and can appreciate the following.

NOTE: I have previousloy stated that if I were to become involved in such an attempt by ASI, I would do some things differently as I have since had some training in mediation and I understand the process better.

Unfortunately I do not think that would have helped anymore than ASI's attempts. Parents, teach their children to choose their friends wisely and caution them against hanging around with the wrong crowd for a very good reason. Unfortunately you learned that with Pickle and Joy a little late IMHO, and Linda still hasn't learned.

If you feel that your earlier post should be included here I am quite sure you have it also and are more than capable of posting it here yourself. Or anything else which has been overlooked by this forum.

3d

The edited version:

3ABN_Defender
Senior Member
Posts: 113

Re: And Now for the other side of the story...
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2010, 06:13:03 AM »

Mr Matthews,

I both understand and can appreciate the following.

NOTE: I have previousloy stated that if I were to become involved in such an attempt by ASI, I would do some things differently as I have since had some training in mediation and I understand the process better.

Unfortunately I do not think that would have helped anymore than ASI's attempts. Parents, teach their children to choose their friends wisely and caution them against hanging around with the wrong crowd for a very good reason. Unfortunately you learned that with Pickle and Joy a little late IMHO, and Linda still hasn't learned.

If you feel that your earlier post should be included here I am quite sure you have it also and are more than capable of posting it here yourself. Or ****************************.



3d


Edited to remove inappropriate content.

« Last Edit: March 29, 2010, 07:39:33 AM by Snoopy »

[Pat Williams]

Excuse me mrs53, Tommy Shelton has already been brought to "justice." Complaints were filed, a warrant was issued, he surrendered to the police and was charged and arrested, and will now be able to face his accusers and they and he have the right to a fair trial.

3ABN_Defender, from your statement that I have quoted above, it is obvious that you have no concept of the meaning of the term justice. Tommy Shelton has not been brought to "justice" he has merely entered into the first step of procedures in the justice system that will lead to him being prosecuted for pedophilia. Since Tommy has been charged and arrested, the District Attorney must believe that there are legitimate grounds to persue prosecution. As far as justice is concerned, it is his victims that deserve retributive justice under the law. Retributive justice is a theory of justice that considers that punishment, if proportionate, is a morally acceptable response to crime. "Let the punishment fit the crime" is the principle that the severity of penalty for a misdeed or wrongdoing should be reasonable and proportionate to the severity of the infraction. What is a reasonable penalty for victimizing and stealing the innocence of a child? Not one child, but multiple children? Jesus said: "But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea." (Matthew 18:6)

Sister you and I see justice very differently. To me justice is not a "trial by media" (lynch mob mentality) and condemnation and verdicts of guilt only. I know what I meant and referred to, and this is it:

justice definition

jus·tice (jus′tis)

noun

1. the quality of being righteous; rectitude
2. impartiality; fairness
3. the quality of being right or correct
4. sound reason; rightfulness; validity
5. reward or penalty as deserved; just deserts
6.
1. the use of authority and power to uphold what is right, just, or lawful
2. the personification of this, usually a blindfolded goddess holding scales and a sword
7. the administration of law; procedure of a law court - Webster law dictionary

Brought to trial (Redirected from Brought to justice)

Brought to trial means to calendar a legal case for a hearing, or to bring a defendant to the bar of justice. The simplest definition is "the commencement of the trial in a court by formally calling and swearing in of the witnesses to initiate the trial proceedings." However, much like Pro-rata, it has several different, ambiguous meanings and examples used in the law. To bring to trial is when the process is ongoing. Most often, the terms brought to trial, bring to trial, brought to justice and bring to justice refer to the prosecution at trial of alleged war criminals and political prisoners, as well as those accused of treason or misprision of treason, sexual assault, and other infamous crimes

Fifth amendment
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Sixth amendment
'In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

The above from the bill of rights are applied to each State by the 14th amendment.

Fourteenth amendment - Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

INNOCENCE, PRESUMPTION OF

The indictment or formal charge against any person is not evidence of guilt. Indeed, the person is presumed by the law to be innocent. The law does not require a person to prove his innocence or produce any evidence at all. The Government has the burden of proving a person guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and if it fails to do so the person is (so far as the law is concerned) not guilty.

I realize that you have chosen not to comment on my statement referring to one of Tommy's many victims being a Shelton. Would you also brand him a liar?

You have a long history with your posts, so I wouldn't hesitate to brand you a liar, but why would I brand "him" one? I don't even know who this person is or even if he exists or if this even occurred, outside of gossip and slander, or your imagination. I do know "if" this happened, then your person never turned Tommy in when Tommy never attended counseling for being a pedophile as you state the ultimatum was, and I know if push comes to shove that his counselor who knows what he was getting help for could testify to that, and there are zero allegations or complaints filed by your unnamed Shelton, so it appears unlikely your story is true.

I must however express my surprise that you would actually post here under the name of Sister again and think you have any credibility at all after all your boasting about never being identified, and then having Danny confront your husband at the ASI convention about how disappointed he was in you both that you would spread such lies. Even going so far as to you and Johann accusing him of murdering his first wife. When the truth is she was killed instantly when her vehicle was stuck head on by another one, and it's a miracle that their daughter wasn't. Your days of claiming to come and go and observe and report and be a witness even at Shelton family gathering are over and exposed for the lies they were, and your "Unauthorized 3abn history" is in the trash where it deserves to be.

You are the worst example of a Pastor's wife I have ever heard of with all the gossip, slander and trash you've slung around which at best was repeating "hearsay" and adding your own spiteful embellishments, and was at worst was outright and deliberate false witness. And instead of being ashamed when you and your lies were exposed, you lied again, claiming that it never happened despite the witnesses and even the pictures.

I am sure that the adventtalk admins will be here to delete this, and write "Inappropriate content removed" as usual so nobody will see it, but I took the liberty of posting it here on the defender's forum first and here it will stand. I think it very appropriate as you have no credibility, and anything you claim has to be examined under a microscope. Readers need to know that.

3-d

Censored version:

Excuse me mrs53, Tommy Shelton has already been brought to "justice." Complaints were filed, a warrant was issued, he surrendered to the police and was charged and arrested, and will now be able to face his accusers and they and he have the right to a fair trial.

3ABN_Defender, from your statement that I have quoted above, it is obvious that you have no concept of the meaning of the term justice....


I must however express my surprise that you would actually post here under the name of Sister again and think you have any credibility at all after all your boasting about never being identified, and then having Danny confront your husband at the ASI convention about how disappointed he was in you both that you would spread such lies. Even going so far as to you and Johann accusing him of murdering his first wife. When the truth is she was killed instantly when her vehicle was stuck head on by another one, and it's a miracle that their daughter wasn't. Your days of claiming to come and go and observe and report and be a witness even at Shelton family gathering are over and exposed for the lies they were, and your "Unauthorized 3abn history" is in the trash where it deserves to be.

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3-d



Edited to remove inappropriate content. Abide by the rules here, 3D, or don't come back.

« Last Edit: Today at 11:14:16 AM by Snoopy »

The part which was deleted was the following:

You are the worst example of a Pastor's wife I have ever heard of with all the gossip, slander and trash you've slung around which at best was repeating "hearsay" and adding your own spiteful embellishments, and was at worst outright and deliberate false witness. And instead of being ashamed when you and your lies were exposed, you lied again, claiming that it never happened despite the witnesses and even the pictures.

I am sure that the adventtalk admins will be here to delete this, and write "Inappropriate content removed" as usual so nobody will see it, but I took the liberty of posting it here on the defender's forum first and here it will stand. I think it very appropriate as you have no credibility, and anything you claim has to be examined under a microscope. Readers need to know that.

I have been banned from Adventtalk also.

For those who don't know. Kristina "sister" Fiscalini was the author of "the unauthorized 3abn history" threads on Blacksda and promoted and spoke for the author of that piece of trash "The televangelist". Her husband a former part of the Pastoral staff at 3ABN was well aware of it, as he had a membership on that forum under the name of "Brother". She and he were only at 3ABN for a short time, meaning when she claimed to have personal knowledge of, or to have been a witness to all the stories and accusations she made. It is not even possible with most as she wasn't there in the time periods she spoke of. She and her husband live in Switzerland, so she hasn't been visiting there either.

[Truth]

I find it reprehensible that a Pastor's wife would have such cruel thoughts and feelings towards those who are doing the work of the Lord at 3ABN when she doesn't even know most of those who work there. They should be "fellow" servants working together, but instead Mrs. Fiscalini has caused a terrible rift, as well as a lawsuit and has continued on her quest to say all manner of gossip and unkind accusations against 3ABN.

What is prompting her to do this? Who is behind her doing this?

I've noticed BSDA is closing its doors. Maritime is not doing so hot either and CF has hardly anyone who posts anymore. All three of these forums allowed these people to vent their ungodly words/lies against 3ABN. But all three are going downhill fast simply because God cannot bless them.

[Penny]

It is disconcerting how defensive Duane has become over on the other site. He clearly doesn't like the questions or statements made to him by Ian.

What is perplexing or maybe what he or other don't seem to see...they don't like being put under the spotlight, but they are quite ready to do that to Danny, 3ABN and anyone else that they deem worthy or their wrath and vengeance.

Has no one over there heard of doing to others as you would have them do to you?

[Truth]

Penny, I agree with you. It is easy to sling mud at your neighbor but suddenly when it is flung "your" way, "you" don't like it. It does hurt. It always hurts to gossip and lie about people, no matter who they are. I know there are complete fabrications now being made up over on the other forum. Someone is desperate to slander the reputations of good people.