Odie,
After having wrestled and praying all week end I have come to the following conclusion:
At this point, I for one do not believe you would accept any answers that any one gives and have given us your different reasons why on a couple of forums. Maybe you are not aware how it comes across but it looks like you already have made up your mind as to what you believe and not open to anything else. The truth is that I am not an anonymous poster using a name that is not my own, do not state only what I have been told, do not follow DS and 3ABN blindly, and contrary to what you may think, am not told what to say by anyone at 3ABN and never have been. You could ask all the defenders of 3ABN and you will probably hear most of these same things.
I am not so young that I have hours and energy to spend for naught. So until and unless you can give me a reason to research to find answers because you really want to know the truth I will not be trying to answer you any further.
Donna
Giving to Evangelistic Endeavors
Moderators: Breezy, Lilly, Truth
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Donna
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:19 pm America/Denver
Re: Giving to Evangelistic Endeavors
"Most startling messages will be borne by men of God's appointment, messages of a character to warn the people, to arouse them. And while some will be provoked by the warning, and led to resist the light and evidence, we are to see from this that we are giving the testing message for this time." Evangelism, p. 168.
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odie1962
- Posts: 289
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:25 am America/Denver
Re: Giving to Evangelistic Endeavors
Donna,
The answers to this are quite simple to understand. By those repeating what they are told does not work in this instance.
As to what I have made up my mind to concerning the horses you are right, I have. Until a explaination that I know has a reasonable chance of being truth. What has been said here does not qualify.
You and others are speaking without any practical or personal knowledge.
If there is ever a logical reason stated I would not have a problem believing it. However when all I get is more canned comments that is not likely to happen.
The answers to this are quite simple to understand. By those repeating what they are told does not work in this instance.
As to what I have made up my mind to concerning the horses you are right, I have. Until a explaination that I know has a reasonable chance of being truth. What has been said here does not qualify.
You and others are speaking without any practical or personal knowledge.
If there is ever a logical reason stated I would not have a problem believing it. However when all I get is more canned comments that is not likely to happen.
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Penny
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:20 pm America/Denver
Re: Giving to Evangelistic Endeavors
Part of a respectful dialogue is that sometimes we agree to disagree. Odie, perhaps no one can answer to your satisfaction the questions and comments you have on the horses. I won't even attempt to because I haven't got a clue about nor a speck of interest in keeping horses. I will just say that at some point if both parties acknowledge that neither is satisfied with the response of the other...it's enough. You know "a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." We can let the matter drop for the time being.
Regarding giving to charities - most of us would like 100% of our money to go towards the end product or service that we are giving to. There have been stories out there of charities with extraordinarily high administrative expense ratios, spending far more on operating the charity's offices than towards the goal of the mission.
That being said, all charities will have administrative and other overhead costs. These costs have to be covered. Charities rarely operate on 100% unpaid voluntary staff. The charity will have wages and salaries to pay, administrative facilities that are not free (if the charity is of any size), utilities, marketing and advertising etc. So it is unreasonable to expect for anyone to expect that 100% of their charitable donations go towards the end goal mission of the organization.
I regularly make contributions to my local church's expense fund. Truth be said, I'm fairly confident that a good share of that money, if not most of it goes towards maintaining the church, utilities - heating, A/C, water, telephone etc;, paying for church office staff, for the cleaning crew, snow removal, lawn care, toilet paper, tuning the piano, potluck supplies (eg. paper plates) and the like. A relatively small amount in comparison goes towards evangelism, Sabbath School Supplies and quarterlies (which may be something of a waste of money, since it seems many are not even reading the weekly lessons they have been given - this is my opinion only based upon the number of people showing up for SS and the number who come, but evidently have no clue what the lesson is about - and that sometimes includes me!), and the like. I suppose that I could stipulate that my contributions go towards evangelism or outreach or the soup kitchen or the like. However, I will not be very pleased to go to church on a hot summer day and the air conditioning is not working.
My point is that charities have operating costs that are above and beyond mission related costs. Without the operating costs there is no not-for-profit charity.
If you are not happy about how any particular charity is spending the money that has been donated to it, then find another one that you are happy with. But be careful that in the rush to criticize how one charity operates, that you do not rush 'into the arms of another' without first carefully investigating how your new charity is spending its resources.
God bless.
Regarding giving to charities - most of us would like 100% of our money to go towards the end product or service that we are giving to. There have been stories out there of charities with extraordinarily high administrative expense ratios, spending far more on operating the charity's offices than towards the goal of the mission.
That being said, all charities will have administrative and other overhead costs. These costs have to be covered. Charities rarely operate on 100% unpaid voluntary staff. The charity will have wages and salaries to pay, administrative facilities that are not free (if the charity is of any size), utilities, marketing and advertising etc. So it is unreasonable to expect for anyone to expect that 100% of their charitable donations go towards the end goal mission of the organization.
I regularly make contributions to my local church's expense fund. Truth be said, I'm fairly confident that a good share of that money, if not most of it goes towards maintaining the church, utilities - heating, A/C, water, telephone etc;, paying for church office staff, for the cleaning crew, snow removal, lawn care, toilet paper, tuning the piano, potluck supplies (eg. paper plates) and the like. A relatively small amount in comparison goes towards evangelism, Sabbath School Supplies and quarterlies (which may be something of a waste of money, since it seems many are not even reading the weekly lessons they have been given - this is my opinion only based upon the number of people showing up for SS and the number who come, but evidently have no clue what the lesson is about - and that sometimes includes me!), and the like. I suppose that I could stipulate that my contributions go towards evangelism or outreach or the soup kitchen or the like. However, I will not be very pleased to go to church on a hot summer day and the air conditioning is not working.
My point is that charities have operating costs that are above and beyond mission related costs. Without the operating costs there is no not-for-profit charity.
If you are not happy about how any particular charity is spending the money that has been donated to it, then find another one that you are happy with. But be careful that in the rush to criticize how one charity operates, that you do not rush 'into the arms of another' without first carefully investigating how your new charity is spending its resources.
God bless.
Penny
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Sam
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:35 pm America/Denver
Re: Giving to Evangelistic Endeavors
I could explain what you are calling "different stories" but since you have stated numerous times you won't listen to anyone that is anonymous, what would be the point? Just because someone doesn't give their real name (mostly because of the underhanded tactics of Pickle and Joy) Does not mean they don't know the facts or have the correct information. Nevertheless, if that is your choice there is no sense in responding.