Maintaining DS was wrong/guilty-- based on what, and why?

[steffan]

[Admin note: This discussion started in the "Compared to what Pickle says.." thread and was moved here.]

Well, Danny almost got it. If he wasn't going to do as Bob and Gailon do, he should have mentioned that soembody told me something about you at all. He is growing, though. Good try.

For instance I recently talked to a couple of people who claim to know you. One of them claims to know a family member of yours. They tell me a number of negative things about you that could very well be true, But I'm not going to make up my decision based what they say. And neither am I going to write what they tell me and send it to anyone else to try to discredit you for any reason from what they say based on their words alone."

No, princessdi, I believe you do not get it at all. Let me quote from Danny's personal private email to Gailon

And neither am I going to write what they tell me and send it to anyone else to try to discredit you for any reason from what they say based on their words alone.

Danny was true to what he wrote. He did NOT.

On the other hand, I did not see any problem with finding out what Gailon Joy's documented misdeeds were because I was disgusted with sleaze and slime they spread which you readily believe.

[princessdi]

Actually, I think I got it more than most. If Danny were truly being as merciful as he claimed, he would not even mentioned anything. Not that anyone even told him something negative about Bob. Did you ever see Jesus do such a thing agains the Pharisees?(and He knew each and every one of their sins) NOT! It goes without saying that both sides fo this tragedy say and receive good and bad comments about the other side ALL the time. It was not necessary to say, except to let Bob know that he had something on him..........in reserve. Also for me, I will hold Danny a little more accountable in this area, as he co founded a wonderful ministry which claims to be the "Leader in Christian living" That is an awesome responsibility, not just good advertising .

And you should take the time to ask me what I believe and why. It is definitely not based on anything Bob and Gailon are syaing. If anything their comments only acted as confirmation of that of which I was already convinced long before their arrival at BSDA. Now, if you are aksing , I wil tell you. Just let me know, but don't assume.

In fact, while I am out here on this ledge I might as well go all out. I believe Danny, Bob, and Gailon to be about the same. At this point there is no good or bad side. I don't believe any of them to be the devil they are trying to make the other. They are ALL only demonstrating tendancies toward the "dark side of the force" if you will forgive me my scifi colloquialism. All claiming ot have God on their side, yeah right. Now, don't get me wrong, these are still my brothers in Christ, and I love them with that christian love. My own personal relationship requires that I do no other. They just happen to be "acting up" right now, and I have no problem letting them know that.

[odie1962]

That is one of the problems for me. If I do not swallow hook,line and sinker what DS says or allows to be said by others that means that Bob and Gailon are believed and maybe admired for the garbage they spew.

I will say it again,DS is the one that has told me who DS is,and I do not like what that says.
There has been a couple of incidences that have come out where I know the person,and will believe them over DS or Bob and Gailon any day.

For those of you that so stridently defend DS,it defies credibility that you all know the minute details of any accusation Bob and gailon make. While I believe they are totally capable of making up what they think might stick,many things they have not made up. It couldn't be or those defending DS would not have a detailed account of what really happened each and every time.The stories are out there and true,at this point it is impossible to tell how much Bob and Gailon have embroidered.

How is it that every detail of DS life is known so completely by so many? How could so many be present at the point of all these incidences?

Whether it is DS or anyone else in his position that is being accused of sexual misconduct among other things,they do not committ those acts in "a glass house"
Most that are accused can supply just what is be supplied for DS,people that just know each and every story,the facts and that DS did nothing wrong.

I can't prove DS did anything,but none of you here can prove he is innocent on all counts.
The ready explainations that have been supplied by none other than DS,just doesn't cut it.
I believe most here believe in DS's total innocence. I don't believe in the innocence of either side. My thoughts were pretty much mirrored by what she has said.
I have been married to the same man for 46 years and I can tell you I could not come up with the minute details of his life if he were accused of wrong doing,committed while I was not present. I can have faith in him which I do,but unless we were together 24/7 I could only repeat his version of events.

[princessdi]

No, you all are not getting me. I maintain that if Danny was serious about this statement:

"

For instance I recently talked to a couple of people who claim to know you. One of them claims to know a family member of yours. They tell me a number of negative things about you that could very well be true, But I'm not going to make up my decision based what they say. And neither am I going to write what they tell me and send it to anyone else to try to discredit you for any reason from what they say based on their words alone."

...he would not have made it at all. There is no need to say anything. I am not saying that he subsequently told what the people said, I am saying he should not have made the comment about talking to the people in the first place. Instead, he chose to tell Bob basically, "even your family is talking bad about you". Somebody has to take the high road here. Might as well be the one who claims daily to be the "leader in christian living". What do you thing? Now don't get me wrong, Bob and Gailon as just as wrong and equally accountable, so they could also choose to take the high road. but none of them are choosing it, so ALL of them are wrong.

***I was a bit confused as to where to post this, so I posted in both threads. Ian, you can delete which ever one is in the wrong place. ***

[Penny]

No, you all are not getting me. I maintain that if Danny was serious about this statement:

"

For instance I recently talked to a couple of people who claim to know you. One of them claims to know a family member of yours. They tell me a number of negative things about you that could very well be true, But I'm not going to make up my decision based what they say. And neither am I going to write what they tell me and send it to anyone else to try to discredit you for any reason from what they say based on their words alone."

...he would not have made it at all. There is no need to say anything. I am not saying that he subsequently told what the people said, I am saying he should not have made the comment about talking to the people in the first place. Instead, he chose to tell Bob basically, "even your family is talking bad about you". Somebody has to take the high road here. Might as well be the one who claims daily to be the "leader in christian living". What do you thing? Now don't get me wrong, Bob and Gailon as just as wrong and equally accountable, so they could also choose to take the high road. but none of them are choosing it, so ALL of them are wrong.

Princess Di - correct me if I am wrong, but what you have quoted from Danny above, is a personal email that he wrote to Gailon. That email was not put out for public consumption by Danny, therefore he was not out making that statement publicly. And that is the big difference - as I see it. Gailon and Bob, it seems, have gotten to the point where they are throwing out anything salacious that they can put their hands on - without regard to the facts.

Perhaps someone knows and will comment on how Danny's email that you quoted from above became public.

[princessdi]

Well, I didn't know it was from a private email, which is problematic on it's own as you have stated. However, it doesn't make the situation better. If you are going to take the high road, you take it publicaly AND privately. TO so otherwiase would be fake. This only confirms to me that Danny meant to let Bob and Gailon know that he had "something" on Bob. it is not something that HAD to be mentioned, especially he wasn't going to even divulge the information. IOW, it was not said or no information divulge out of the goodness of Danny's heart. It was stil all part of this very sick game.

As I siad, he didn't have to do it and they can contiue to travel the low road for four more years if they like. However, there ARE options, and NOBODY"s pride is letting them exercise them. Everyone is so busy trying to be right, that they are not consdering the cost to anyone or anything else. One issue that I do see is that this thing had adjust for the wrost the moral barometer of a good precentage of those who are directly and indirectly involved. Many can no longer determine right from wrong. Example: Danny might have meant well, but his barometer has been so distorted, that he could not see that it would actually make things worse or he did realize it and "all is fair in love and war. I believe there was a time whent hat would have been a no brainer for him.

I believe you all are misunderstanding me. I am not presently having a problem whether Danny siad something in public or private, it is that he said it at all. All through this thing people have threaten they had certain information, or just out righ tposted the information they had with prior warning. However, it is ALL a mess. If you want to stop that the way is not to make sure that the other saide knows that you have "soemthing else" in reserve. It is to stop it altogether. To put it directly,

-Bob and Gailon cease from posting ALL information, regardiong Danny and his wrong doings or those perceived to be.

-Danny does the same, refrain from self righteously proclaiming that he is better than Bob and Gailon because he hasn't told everything he knows, and threatening to drag anybody into court who happens to talk about him bad.

I phrased it this way, because technically Danny and his supporters have posted far less documentation in support of their position, instead relying on Danny declining credibility. Bob and Gailon can't wait to post anything that hits their hot little hands. Blunt I know, but the truth any how Everyone just stops. What would happen if everyone just ceased? Not waiting for the other to stop but just stopped for themselves.

At least Danny did drop the lawsuit, that was a step int he right direction. bob and Gailon's response to that is still some what of a mytery to me, but hey, it is consistent with everything else going on in this unfortunate situation.

[Penny]

Well, I didn't know it was from a private email, which is problematic on it's own as you have stated. However, it doesn't make the situation better. If you are going to take the high road, you take it publicaly AND privately. TO so otherwiase would be fake. This only confirms to me that Danny meant to let Bob and Gailon know that he had "something" on Bob. it is not something that HAD to be mentioned, especially he wasn't going to even divulge the information. IOW, it was not said or no information divulge out of the goodness of Danny's heart. It was stil all part of this very sick game.

As I siad, he didn't have to do it and they can contiue to travel the low road for four more years if they like. However, there ARE options, and NOBODY"s pride is letting them exercise them. Everyone is so busy trying to be right, that they are not consdering the cost to anyone or anything else. One issue that I do see is that this thing had adjust for the wrost the moral barometer of a good precentage of those who are directly and indirectly involved. Many can no longer determine right from wrong. Example: Danny might have meant well, but his barometer has been so distorted, that he could not see that it would actually make things worse or he did realize it and "all is fair in love and war. I believe there was a time whent hat would have been a no brainer for him.

I believe you all are misunderstanding me. I am not presently having a problem whether Danny siad something in public or private, it is that he said it at all. All through this thing people have threaten they had certain information, or just out righ tposted the information they had with prior warning. However, it is ALL a mess. If you want to stop that the way is not to make sure that the other saide knows that you have "soemthing else" in reserve. It is to stop it altogether. To put it directly,

-Bob and Gailon cease from posting ALL information, regardiong Danny and his wrong doings or those perceived to be.

-Danny does the same, refrain from self righteously proclaiming that he is better than Bob and Gailon because he hasn't told everything he knows, and threatening to drag anybody into court who happens to talk about him bad.

I phrased it this way, because technically Danny and his supporters have posted far less documentation in support of their position, instead relying on Danny declining credibility. Bob and Gailon can't wait to post anything that hits their hot little hands. Blunt I know, but the truth any how Everyone just stops. What would happen if everyone just ceased? Not waiting for the other to stop but just stopped for themselves.

At least Danny did drop the lawsuit, that was a step int he right direction. bob and Gailon's response to that is still some what of a mytery to me, but hey, it is consistent with everything else going on in this unfortunate situation.

Di - you (and I don't mean you personally) cannot have it both ways: First, suggesting that 3ABN/Danny shouldn't divulge information that may be damaging to another's reputation and then turn around and say that 3ABN/Danny and those supporting 3ABN/Danny haven't given enough proof. It may be worth considering that Danny and 3ABN have been traveling the high road when it comes to exposing the "proof" that they have about Linda and others.

From what I can recall based on what I've read (and I'm sure I will be corrected if my chronology is wrong) the whole affair was discussed between Danny & Linda and a few others who were brought into the equation - in an attempt to resolve the problems in the marriage without the public being aware. (That makes good sense from a practical point of view). What that didn't work the board determined that Linda's refusal to sever the relationship with the doctor was sufficient basis to rescind her employment.

At some point this all goes public...and Gailon and his crew have convinced many that because 3ABN won't disclose all the details to them that there must not be any proof. That's one way of interpreting things...and another way of interpreting is that in taking the high road they have not made public information that could damage Linda's public persona.

----------------------
This makes me wonder, would you give Gailon and his crew access to emails you have written to your spouse when you were in the midst of such marital problems? Of course, now we all know that we never put in writing (hard copy, email or other) anything that we wouldn't want the whole world to see - but back then, who would have thought that Linda would have given the emails to people who would post them on the internet for the whole world to read? (I am assuming that Linda distributed the emails to Gailon/Pickle/Johann or whoever, unless someone can show that Danny did(!)).

[princessdi]

Sorry, I must make a correction here. I misread the email, and overlooked a correction that Penny attempted. I kept referring tot he email written to Bob, and it was written to Gailon. Forgive me for this oversight and eny confusion.

No, no, Penny, I was not saying they didn't give enough evidence,b ut that it was not their "style" to post mountains of it. They have always maintain that their proof would come in court and/or the proper forum. They have stuck to that the entire time.

I am not sure that I agree that Danny or the board tried to keep anything secret about Linda. The statements made from the beginning raised more questions than it answered. In fact, once again, there was no need to say anything immediately, except for the abrupt disappearance of Linda from the programming. I have know people who were in the congregations of subsequent "On the Road" segments where Danny was telling, but not telling. Quite subtle, but for those in the know and certainly to Linda and her supporters who may have been watching, he was talking about it ALL the time. Sublty is not always a good thing. Now, about Danny having proof, the proof he said he had was not credible, unless they were just saying something to try to calm things down. Somehow, I blieve if Danny had some real proof, it would have been out there. Right now, it is ALL circumstantial, and it really looks as if he was doing a bit of " projecting" onto Linda. I just have ot say here, that I do have credibility issues with Danny. He did come onto BSDA insulting us(when we only said we would pray for them and expressed a bit of ocncern over the retaping of the shows, while other sites were calling hima nd lInda everything but a child of God), and proclaiming how much he still loved lInda, wanted to work everything out, spent great amounts of time, etc......only to find out later that he was applying for a quickie divorce in Guam. Now, I dont' lilke to be lied to, and I especially don't like it when you take it upon yourself just to tell me this lie without me asking you any questions. That is where Danny lost credibility with me. Not even becuase he was getting a divorce, none of the subsequent questionable dealings, etc. ONLY because my first encounter was a lie. Simple.

Now, would I give Bob and Gailon access to ANY emails I may have written...ever? Please don't make me cuss of this Christian site. As I said EVERYBODY, especially, Bob and Gailon are in this "all is fair in love and war", and "anything for the cause" mode. Bob and Gailon want DAnny gone,a d they are extremely serious about that thing. Danny wants them to stop telling his buisness and/or what they believe to be his business, and he is extremely serious about that thing. I have seen how Bob and Gailon.have handled information entrusted to them---no thanks!

So, I guess it is safe to say that neither "side" has any credibility with me for varied reasons, but based entirely on their own words and actions.

[Penny]

Sorry, I must make a correction here. I misread the email, and overlooked a correction that Penny attempted. I kept referring tot he email written to Bob, and it was written to Gailon. Forgive me for this oversight and eny confusion.

No, no, Penny, I was not saying they didn't give enough evidence,b ut that it was not their "style" to post mountains of it. They have always maintain that their proof would come in court and/or the proper forum. They have stuck to that the entire time.

Sometimes we all learn it is better to say or show nothing.

I am not sure that I agree that Danny or the board tried to keep anything secret about Linda. The statements made from the beginning raised more questions than it answered. In fact, once again, there was no need to say anything immediately, except for the abrupt disappearance of Linda from the programming. I have know people who were in the congregations of subsequent "On the Road" segments where Danny was telling, but not telling. Quite subtle, but for those in the know and certainly to Linda and her supporters who may have been watching, he was talking about it ALL the time. Sublty is not always a good thing.

I have also heard about such supposed statements being made on tv, but never have seen any video presented as proof. I did see the one statement made by Dr Thompson at the first campmeeting when Linda was not in attendance. There was nothing untoward said at that time.

Now, about Danny having proof, the proof he said he had was not credible, unless they were just saying something to try to calm things down. Somehow, I blieve if Danny had some real proof, it would have been out there. Right now, it is ALL circumstantial, and it really looks as if he was doing a bit of " projecting" onto Linda. I just have ot say here, that I do have credibility issues with Danny. He did come onto BSDA insulting us(when we only said we would pray for them and expressed a bit of ocncern over the retaping of the shows, while other sites were calling hima nd lInda everything but a child of God), and proclaiming how much he still loved lInda, wanted to work everything out, spent great amounts of time, etc......only to find out later that he was applying for a quickie divorce in Guam.

I have heard 'whispered about' a different story altogether about the divorce-in-Guam story, but since I have no proof I won't bother to repeat what I have heard. I'm only bringing this up to note that a "quickie divorce in Guam" may not be the only/whole story.

Now, I dont' lilke to be lied to, and I especially don't like it when you take it upon yourself just to tell me this lie without me asking you any questions. That is where Danny lost credibility with me. Not even becuase he was getting a divorce, none of the subsequent questionable dealings, etc. ONLY because my first encounter was a lie. Simple.

I've yet to meet someone that likes being lied to. Even liars protest against being lied to themselves.

Gailon and Pickle have been shown to be liars, distorters of the facts, twisters of truth, mis-interpreters of statements ... however you want to put it. So like you I am quick sick of them and at this point believe absolutely nothing that they write.

Now, would I give Bob and Gailon access to ANY emails I may have written...ever? Please don't make me cuss of this Christian site.

Thanks for the hearty laugh I had from reading this!

As I said EVERYBODY, especially, Bob and Gailon are in this "all is fair in love and war", and "anything for the cause" mode. Bob and Gailon want DAnny gone,a d they are extremely serious about that thing. Danny wants them to stop telling his buisness and/or what they believe to be his business, and he is extremely serious about that thing. I have seen how Bob and Gailon.have handled information entrusted to them---no thanks!

So, I guess it is safe to say that neither "side" has any credibility with me for varied reasons, but based entirely on their own words and actions.[/color]

(I don't think I'm using the quotes above all correctly, but my replies to Di are in green above)

[steffan]

And therein lies the problem with what was just written. The "quickie" divorce was not Danny getting rid of Linda. This point has been brought up many times and each time what is forgotten is that : Linda completely agreed to it

1. You can still love someone and yet say "break off that relationship because you can't have two men in your marriage"
2. Linda originally planned to establish residency in Nevada for a quickie divorce, but when the Guam route was quicker, agreed to it.
3. It was an uncontested divorce
4. To keep repeating the lie that Danny "cast off" Linda completely ignores the fact that Linda was very willing to be divorced. Months later, she figured out she wanted much more money and then tried to invalidate that divorce in Illinois.
5. Read the documents relating to the divorce in Guam, the facts couldn't be more clear.

princessdi said

only to find out later that he was applying for a quickie divorce in Guam.