Response to posts on another forum
Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:39 am America/Denver
On another forum under the subject “3ABN exonerated by IRS investigation” I read on, 7-30/31-08, the following conversation:
Nosir Myzing then came in and responded to Gregory having said, “Linda has a history of complaining about just about everyperson who has attempted to help her--Bob, Gailon, me, and others whom I know have worked very hard to help her and others of whom I am not so closely informed. I personally know that much of what has been said is inaccurate and misleading, even if believed.” :
We have many who loved Linda; husband, friends, employers, fellow workers and pastor, etc., that tried to help her when they seen the path she was taking. Her marriage, employment, church affiliation, and friendships could have been saved had she heeded the warnings given to her by those who loved her most. Different avenues that could have helped, such as counseling, ASI etc., were presented that could have helped all who were involved but Linda turned her back on each one and thing. All of this should have been more than ample proof that she did not want help of that kind. She only wanted the help of those who gave her sympathy and allowed her to feel she was okay and to feel good about her decision to continue on the path she had chosen. In my opinion I do not count those who do that as friends or ones who truly love and care for us.
Linda was given so many opportunities and failed to do anything to help herself. Those in the different positions that were there to help her were given no choice but to allow her to do as she wanted. Of course the consequences of her own actions came upon her and she could not or would not understand. Instead she set about to put a whirlwind storm into action that she herself was caught in.
I don’t claim to be anything other than an observer of fellow human beings through the years. I have seen many who do not know what love is. They believe love is shown to them by giving them their way and what they want. At the same time they do not give love in the same way. It is inconceivable to them that there are a whole lot of people outside of their own world of self. All others are just a means to be used and abused. Do they know they are doing this? Not that I have seen. Of course if we do what pleases them we will be treated very well, but just don’t mess up or you will receive a shocking response. I don’t know when it started with any of them, but their whole attitude is I want what I want when I want it. The answers to most things put to them are either, because I wanted to or because I didn’t want to. It makes no difference that others may have to suffer or sacrifice for them to get it because that never crosses their minds. The end always seems to justify the means. If anything does go awry they most always lay it to someone else’s fault. They seem to live in a dream world where their feet never touch the ground of reality. They are not easily manipulated because they are usually the one who is adept at manipulation. Do they always know that they are manipulating? I am not sure if they do or not or if it is such a habit that they know no other way. I do know that this kind of person is very hard to work or deal with. While they may have you believing you are communicating and working well together they are the whole while setting you up with another or changing their mind at a mere whim and leaving you flat on the ground and you not knowing why you are there.
There is no shame to having been manipulated. A psychologist admitted he had been manipulated by a very young boy for years. If he admitted to it then it should not be so hard for anyone to admit to it. Better to have learned and gain then to hang on to pride and lose. I personally believe that many were pulled into the game of manipulation that had good motives and intentions and if they would trace their steps back to where they heard what and from whom they could figure out what the truth really is and not the piece meal version they have thus far believed to be the truth.
Sister wrote: “I would like to address item that I have highlighted in red.” My agenda from the very beginning has been two-fold: a) To support Linda Shelton and b) to help her to make the decisions that she needed to make. NOTE: That was not to influence her to make any specific decision bur rather to consider the options that she had, evaulate them and decide. The exception to this, as I have already stated, was that at times when she had no legal representation of any kind she needed to obtain such. Gailon, while you may think you are fully informed as to how I related to Linda, you are not so informed--GM. I believe that statement is misleading. When one takes a counseling position with an individual that has been abused in a way that has resulted in that person having difficulty in making their own life decisions, because their abuser has conditioned them to rely on the abuser for guidance and to distrust their own thoughts, can easily put the ‘counselor’ in a position where ‘helping’ her consider the options that she had, evaluate them and decide can easily become a process of choosing for her.
Gregory Mathews--“Sister, you are quite correct in your comment in regard to what can happen. This is where it is up to the counselor involved to be professional and to guard against such actually happening. Such may be called manipulation.”
Sister—“In the case of Linda’s relationship in regard to any association to Joy and Pickle, by Linda’s own words, I believe that is what you and a small group of individuals, in a combined effort, attempted. Although your attempt in ‘helping Linda’ failed, it had the appearance of taking advantage of a known weakness and exploiting it.”
Gregory—“I do not doubt that such is what is being told today. I will tell you and the public at large that a large list of attempts to help Linda came at her specific request. She asked for help and nothing was imposed upon her. She initiated the request for help in situations where we had no reason to believe that help was needed. You reference a "failed attempt to help her." That is your perception. I called off that attempt because Linda had changed her objectives, among other reasons. That in my mind is not a failure. In my mind it is success when people can come to the place where they take charge of their life and make decisions for themself. In this case, Linda did just exactly that. That was growth and progress which I celebrate.”
Sister—“Had it achieved the desired results, Linda would have been lead to make a statement on the internet that broke any association with Joy and Pickle and would have resulted in you being the spokesperson for Linda. In my opinion that is manipulation, not counseling.”
Gregory—“Was I a spokesperson for Linda? In 2007 and again in 2008 Linda asked me for help on certain specific issues. e.g. In 2007 she asked me to make contact with certain individuals as her spokesperson. There is more to events that took place than is generally known. Be aware that there is an ethical principle that states that when a person is falsely accused that accused person may defend themself by releasing information that would otherwise be considered confidential. Also be aware that confidentiality did not exist between Linda and I. Linda was clearly informed that she and I did not have a relationship in which confidentiality was granted to her. She was told that anything she told me was subject to beign shared with others and several were specificly named. That alone threw confidentiality out the window. I have a great deal of respect for Linda. I have supported her and I continue to support her. False statemenets have been made in regard to events and me. She needs to be aware that I have the right to defend myself as do others about whom false statements are being made.”
Sister—“In this whole sorry saga, only God knows all the hidden agendas. Although not everyone is willing to admit it even to themselves, there are agendas where Linda Shelton merely becomes a pawn to be sacrificed. The first in line in this catagory is her ex-husband, Danny Shelton. Unfortunately, he is not the last.”
Gregory—“I agree with much of what you have said here.
Linda has a history of complaining about just about everyperson who has attempted to help her--Bob, Gailon, me, and others whom I know have worked very hard to help her and others of whom I am not so closely informed. I personally know that much of what has been said is inaccurate and misleading, even if believed. I am well aware that this is a symptom that is often seen in some people who have gone through certain experiences. e.g. She came to me with an accusation against another person that was essentially accusing them of a misdemeanor. I do not think that it is in the best interests of a number of people for every aspect of this to be put out for public view. Good-hearted, sincere people attempted to help her. She was helped in many ways. She is taking charge of her life, she should get on with it. But, continued accusations will give people the right to defend themselves. There is documented evidence to do so.”
Nosir Myzing then came in and responded to Gregory having said, “Linda has a history of complaining about just about everyperson who has attempted to help her--Bob, Gailon, me, and others whom I know have worked very hard to help her and others of whom I am not so closely informed. I personally know that much of what has been said is inaccurate and misleading, even if believed.” :
I believe it is worth mentioning again and also all of what has been said deserves our consideration. From what I have read, pro and con, from the eye witness accounts and personal letters, both on and off of the forums, I write the following:“Agreed.
Is it worth mentioning or considering that this tendency did not begin with either Bob, Gailon, or you, and that perhaps what was inaccurate and misleading before your involvement has also been believed?
Before you entered the scene this same claim was made by Danny Shelton, Kay Kuzma, Brenda Walsh, Pastor Lomacang, and the 3ABN board, and chairman... as they tried to help her and the list goes on...
I believe it is possible that just as in your case, they allowed her to make her own choices, but could not continue with them, or her, although wishing her well and still caring about her.
Personally I see no end to all of this. I applaud your attempt at such, as a come let us reason together approach works among brethren, but I have never noticed it works with the unreasonable, or those bent on vengeance, or at taking offense, and causing it. One reason this lawsuit was inevitable I believe.
So -- I'll return to lurk mode and return the conversation and discussion back to you all now.
Go with God.”
We have many who loved Linda; husband, friends, employers, fellow workers and pastor, etc., that tried to help her when they seen the path she was taking. Her marriage, employment, church affiliation, and friendships could have been saved had she heeded the warnings given to her by those who loved her most. Different avenues that could have helped, such as counseling, ASI etc., were presented that could have helped all who were involved but Linda turned her back on each one and thing. All of this should have been more than ample proof that she did not want help of that kind. She only wanted the help of those who gave her sympathy and allowed her to feel she was okay and to feel good about her decision to continue on the path she had chosen. In my opinion I do not count those who do that as friends or ones who truly love and care for us.
Linda was given so many opportunities and failed to do anything to help herself. Those in the different positions that were there to help her were given no choice but to allow her to do as she wanted. Of course the consequences of her own actions came upon her and she could not or would not understand. Instead she set about to put a whirlwind storm into action that she herself was caught in.
I don’t claim to be anything other than an observer of fellow human beings through the years. I have seen many who do not know what love is. They believe love is shown to them by giving them their way and what they want. At the same time they do not give love in the same way. It is inconceivable to them that there are a whole lot of people outside of their own world of self. All others are just a means to be used and abused. Do they know they are doing this? Not that I have seen. Of course if we do what pleases them we will be treated very well, but just don’t mess up or you will receive a shocking response. I don’t know when it started with any of them, but their whole attitude is I want what I want when I want it. The answers to most things put to them are either, because I wanted to or because I didn’t want to. It makes no difference that others may have to suffer or sacrifice for them to get it because that never crosses their minds. The end always seems to justify the means. If anything does go awry they most always lay it to someone else’s fault. They seem to live in a dream world where their feet never touch the ground of reality. They are not easily manipulated because they are usually the one who is adept at manipulation. Do they always know that they are manipulating? I am not sure if they do or not or if it is such a habit that they know no other way. I do know that this kind of person is very hard to work or deal with. While they may have you believing you are communicating and working well together they are the whole while setting you up with another or changing their mind at a mere whim and leaving you flat on the ground and you not knowing why you are there.
There is no shame to having been manipulated. A psychologist admitted he had been manipulated by a very young boy for years. If he admitted to it then it should not be so hard for anyone to admit to it. Better to have learned and gain then to hang on to pride and lose. I personally believe that many were pulled into the game of manipulation that had good motives and intentions and if they would trace their steps back to where they heard what and from whom they could figure out what the truth really is and not the piece meal version they have thus far believed to be the truth.