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Eduard wrote: Quote from: Daryl Fawcett on November 17, 2008, at 09:48:41 AM
Johann,

If I ever think you are being untruthful about anything pertaining to the issues of Danny Shelton, Linda Shelton, and 3ABN, I will let you know.

Perhaps it is time for Bonnie to give her examples of Johann's "lies"! I, for one, would like to see what and why she sees any statement of Johann's in respect to the relationship of Linda Shelton and Dr. Abrahamsen as lies in any way, shape or form!?

Edward,if that were your wish you would have contacted me,my e-mail is readily available. What you wish for is an opportunity to discuss something on your terms as in you know I have been banned from adventtalk. Why don't you just put on your big boy pants and stroll in here and ask if you can ask some questions. Unlike adventtalk you will not be banned for asking

Strange isn't it,the farce that is played out the most readily apparent to all even lurking on adventtalk. "First Amendment Under Attack, please donate..."

First Amendment Rights are the sole right of anti-DS crowd. Anyone that asks them specific questions, or disagreement with what Bob and Gailon do is grounds for banning. Why not stop the silly charade

GrammieT wrote:If Bonnie has been banned from AT could we allow her to come back for this 'expose' of Johann?

Did the straight forward approach ever occur to you. Again, I am easy to get a hold off. Not nearly as titilating, but a little more grown up. Questions,novel idea, go to the person that you are questioning. Unlike Slippery Bob,I answer questions that are put to me if I can,if I can't I will tell you why.

The Good Pastor

Over at 3atalk I find this accusation by bonnie,




I wonder if I missed something? If Bonnie has somewhere found a question I have missed? At least she states this shows that I am a liar. Can any of you help me find out so that this matter can be cleared up? I do not know of any instance where I have said a lie, and if I have it must be straightened out. Something in connection with the Dr.'s house?

Was I supposed to know what was in each nook and corner in his house? I just wonder?

Another little fib by Johann. He knows full well what I was referencing. This kind of garbage is a great way to deflect answering a direct question by another.......Was I supposed to know what was in each nook and corner in his house? I just wonder?

No you do not wonder
The good pastor knows there were not any questions about what was in every nook and corner of the good Dr's house. Unless it was what nook and corner that was reserved for LS. It was asking for confirmation if the good pastor had actually been present all the time with LS and the DR. He got a little shaky on that.
Then the good pastor makes a post saying I had lied. His choice to believe as he does,but then for crying out loud, stand up like a man and stand behind what you said. Instead this limpwristed "I was only Kidding"

The explanation had already been made,if you chose not to believe it try standing up.

Do I bellieve Johann,NO.

I suggest Grammie T if you want to know something,you ask

from: GrammieT on November 18, 2008, at 09:59:22 AM

Friend Eduard,

I am sorry you have chosen to respond to my post in this way. While I do not think Bonnie has always conducted herself in a way that would give her a certain credence, I do not consider her a fool. Misguided, perhaps; and disappointed in the way that others have responded to her specific family issues, I still think we need to give her a place to discuss her viewpoint no matter how we see it. And I would like to see her reasoning on the issue of Johann's explanations even though I believe her to be wrong in her conclusions. Truthfully, I have not always been happy with the tone and handling of the information Bob and Gailon (moreso) have shared with us even though I fully appreciate that the information has proven to be the truth in every instance so far as it has been presented.

The specific family issues you refer to have no bearing on my disgust for Gailon,Bob,Johann. It did give me a appreciation for how SDA's spell truth and integrity. I will stick with my way.

I have no doubt that there is more on the plate of DS than his defenders see. That does not excuse the behaviour of the anti-3ABN crowd. Grammie T if you wanted to see or read my reasoning the direct approach works best. Ask and you might get an answer,I usually don't refuse like Slippery Bob

Bonnie's family issues are absolutely legitimate and the SDA Church IS sadly lacking in dealing with the many situations where there has been irresponsible behavior on the part of men in positions of authority. I believe that she brought up their family's experience as a comparison to what she sees as happening on the 3ABN front, and I agree with her. Unfortunately, I do not see a great change coming on this issue in the church no matter how greatly needed it is. We, as a people, must stand with those who have been damaged by these kinds of incidents to see that the perpretrators are dealt with in a legally responsible manner after which other issues such as forgiveness on the part of those hurt may be kindly and helpfully handled in a loving way. It is only when we are willing to give understanding support to those whose lives have been upended in a terrible emotional hurricane that we will be seen as true followers of Christ in situations such as this.

You are partially right in..... believe that she brought up their family's experience as a comparison to what she sees as happening on the 3ABN front, and I agree with her. Unfortunately, I do not see a great change coming on this issue in the church no matter how greatly needed it is

Let's not mistake or try to explain away my disgust for adventtalk and all the faithful of Gailon and Bob. One doesn't have much to do with the other except for a heightened disgust for what is going on.


There will be no change in the SDA org unless it is a huge monetary hit.


This is key isn't it.......dealt with in a legally responsible manner

I don't and can't defend 3ABN in areas,nor can Bob,Gailon,and Johann be excused for their behaviour. And yet all rush to do that

I can only thank God that this threesome was no where near my son's situation. For Johann to play cute with answers or not answer at all as to his whereabouts when the Dr and LS were together, and was he always there as stated,makes more suspicion and more disgust concerning LS role in all this.

In this matter, and numerous other matters on which she commented, bonnie did nothing more than to attack and harass those she did not like. She never supported her statements with any kind of evidence. She is just a rattler, and nothing more. What "evidence" would you expect from a fool?


Eduard

Poor Edward is grumpy again. Edward has five pages of calling any he was responding to as fools,stupid,ignorant, they made him sick ,reminded him of the stupid rednecks unable to write their own name in the sand. Worse than that for most of his gracious response to others the coat holders were hard at work grabbing for the honor of holding this very polite man's coat while he ripped others apart. Snoopy,Artiste,Emma,Chrissie,JOhann and most of all Daryl all bowed the knee all read the responses and quickly moved on

If Bonnie has been banned from AT could we allow her to come back for this 'expose' of Johann?
GrammieT

P.S. Johann, FWIW, I do not have any doubts as to the truthfulness of anything you have said on this issue!

Grammie T,you know what is the most insulting about you?? The fact that you haven't a clue that you are.

Maybe Bonnie should be asked first,you think? What is preventing you from finding me here or private e-mail.
Trust me, I am not interested in what the likes of you would allow.

Whoa! We need some more facts before we should consider whether DS had that affair. What high school?
What are the exact dates? How old was the girl? Did anybody see them together? What kind of car and were was it bought? Did DS's family and friends see anything inappropriate? What is the girl's name? Did the girl tell any of her friends?

The reasons for more facts is beware of a trap of someone feeding you false information and because if the accusation can be proved then the resignation of DS from 3ABN can be called for by many people and not just Bob or Gailon. The accusation if not true is defamatory against DS. Slow treading is required here. It is probably a good idea to prove the accusation from at least two sources with one being the girl herself. Written and audio statements should be obtained because this is most likely the strongest evidence, if proved true, for Bob's and Gailon's case up to this point.

This from Wendall is really the cream of the crop. Let's really lay it all out there about a young girl. If she happens to have given her approval for this garbage maybe someone should share with her what will happen to her credibility playing the games that have been played so far by Crystal. Most have little or no sympathy for Duane Clem because of the way he has been used by Slippery Bob and his age ,should make this young girl think twice about joining the crusader's.


If she has not given her consent for Gailon and Bobs brand of christian speak, she will be abused and molested all over again.
By the ones that do it best.SDA saints.
Oh yes Wendall let's dig around in this young girls past and see what we can prove.


And Daryl,you are as guilty for what happens with this........

Daryl said.....I would also be very interested in this piece of factual information.
What are you going to do with that piece of factual information. Are you going to take partial responsibility for dragging her thru Bob and Gailons muck?
You did not take any responsibility for adventtalk or ownership. I watched as you read Edwards and Gailons cordial christian posts. You seemed a bit tongue tied.

In fact you denied ownership, that ownership you claimed to have relinguished. If it was those you aligned yourself with, there was very little they could not get by with.

Now adventtalk seems to be waiting with baited breath to get this juicy story and salivate over it till the next one is offered on the altar of SDA christianity.

Anyone hear the saints on the march again.

Gailon Arthur Joy
Re: If one accuses a lawyer of lying, is that defamation per se?
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2008, at 11:28:31 PM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from: Bob Pickle on November 18, 2008, at 06:05:02 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation#Slander_per_se

"The four (4) categories of slander per se are (i) accusing someone of a crime; (ii) alleging that someone has a foul or loathsome disease; (iii) adversely reflecting on a person's fitness to conduct her business or trade; and (iv) imputing serious sexual misconduct (especially the chastity of a woman)."

If someone accuses a lawyer of lying, does that adversely reflect on his fitness to conduct his business or trade?

Or is that considered a compliment in these perverse times?


Wanna do a poll??? I'ma votin' fer "COMPLIMENT"!!!

The bedda the liar, the bedda the lawya'!!!

Hows about when dey get cott??? What does that make 'em??? A bad li-a' or a bad lawya' One thing is sure, thei's can end up a bit poorah!!! Ere sompin like dat!!!

Here! Here! to a poll!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy

Could it be that dear Brother Leroy has multiple personality disorder.

No doubt Mr. Joy has many "personalities" that he uses. Isn't there something in the medical books about "multiple" personalities?" I think those over on AT like to use multiple names for the many multiple personalities.

But in reality, there are only a small handful of people, about 6 that hate Danny Shelton. But if they take on multiple names, it makes it look like there is a huge number. But we are not fooled. We know what they are trying to do...

Just about the time you think you have seen all someone like Crystal comes along and gives a whole new meaning to SDA speak.

Crystal said
Has anyone at 3ABN got the balls to speak up to DS and tell him
he's a fraud? It's so easy for the rest of us to see it... How
many more people going to be used by him?

Crystal, it might be more benefical for you to quit playing games and asking the men if they have the proper masculine equipment. As between men and women men are the only ones to have testicles.

But you may have an excellant idea. Many times a group presenting grievences to someone is more helpful than the game playing you have done,either as the cousin molested by DS,or possibly even the young woman herself.

I never saw you aksing that question just like that, Bonnie. But what kind of question is it? I did not sleep with neither the Dr. nor Linda, so of course there were times during that crucial period when I was not with either one of them. But what does that prove?

The main point I have made all this time is that during the period in April of 2004 where Danny was accusing Arild and Linda of being together in Florida, my wife and I were staying on Arild's property in Norway, and my wife was being treated daily by him, even some Sabbaths he would give her treatments after sundown, and I was there too. And we rode with him to Sabbath School and Church, and I would go with him to midweek prayer meetings during the several periods we were there.

The flight to Florida takes many hours each way, and at that time there were no direct flights between Norway and Florida, making it physically impossible for the doctor to be in Florida at any time during that period, and yet Danny claimed he had been there with Linda.

The short periods that I did not see Dr. Arild Abrahamsen were never long enough so that he could have taken a trip to Florida, or anywhere else in the United States. And we had such close connections during that whole period that I can assure you that Linda was nowhere in Norway during any period before their divorce, except that trip in February when she was there with Brenda.

This is the basic information I have given each time people have asked. How does that make me a liar? I do not use the same words each time, and at some times I may give more details than at other times.

odie1962 wrote:

The Good Pastor

Over at 3atalk I find this accusation by bonnie,




I wonder if I missed something? If Bonnie has somewhere found a question I have missed? At least she states this shows that I am a liar. Can any of you help me find out so that this matter can be cleared up? I do not know of any instance where I have said a lie, and if I have it must be straightened out. Something in connection with the Dr.'s house?

Was I supposed to know what was in each nook and corner in his house? I just wonder?

Another little fib by Johann. He knows full well what I was referencing. This kind of garbage is a great way to deflect answering a direct question by another.......Was I supposed to know what was in each nook and corner in his house? I just wonder?

No you do not wonder
The good pastor knows there were not any questions about what was in every nook and corner of the good Dr's house. Unless it was what nook and corner that was reserved for LS. It was asking for confirmation if the good pastor had actually been present all the time with LS and the DR. He got a little shaky on that.
Then the good pastor makes a post saying I had lied. His choice to believe as he does,but then for crying out loud, stand up like a man and stand behind what you said. Instead this limpwristed "I was only Kidding"

The explanation had already been made,if you chose not to believe it try standing up.

Do I bellieve Johann,NO.

Yes, I will stand up, Bonnie. I have nothing to hide.

I didn't ask you the questions,someone else did. The answers you gave to those questions were far from what you have said. I do not have it in front of me but the game playing or whatever it was simply lacked the punch of truth,

Furthermore you little humorous response to me when I did not post on here that it appeared as if I had made a mistake. I had done so on adventtalk, where the party it was posted to spends her time. In your response you asked if I had admitted to the lie I had told?? Very few people would read that as humor. This is what you claim.
This was not humourous,nor did you mean it that way,especially in the current climate between the forums. Try standing up this time and see if it works.