What Does the Adventist Church Need to do about Joy & Pickle

[Rodney]

Having read rather extensively about the 3ABN situation briefly at Maritime, extensively at the Black SDA site, and now at ATALK, I am seeing something disturbing that could be catastrophic to the Adventist Church.

Is it possible that two virtual unknowns could so effectively manipulate enough people to cause division within the church that would threaten its very foundation?

The slime factor brought to the table by Joy and Pickle is so well documented it can’t be ignored. I’ve always wished that my church had taken a very public and loud stand against the abuses of David Koresh before the fact rather than as a knee jerk reaction to avoid negative press. Is this a time for those leaders to stand up and be counted now rather than later?

3ABN issues aside, do you see the potential for lasting damage to the church by Pickle & Joy? If so, what should the organized church do about it?

[odie1962]

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Is it possible that two virtual unknowns could so effectively manipulate enough people to cause division within the church that would threaten its very foundation?

It would be tough to call Gailon Joy an unknown.

The slime factor brought to the table by Joy and Pickle is so well documented it can’t be ignored. I’ve always wished that my church had taken a very public and loud stand against the abuses of David Koresh before the fact rather than as a knee jerk reaction to avoid negative press. Is this a time for those leaders to stand up and be counted now rather than later?
3ABN issues aside, do you see the potential for lasting damage to the church by Pickle & Joy? If so, what should the organized church do about it?

Maybe there is no choice but to try to ignore the slime factor at this point. Don't mistake bragging,nasty,vicious behaviour with ignorance. I believe that gailon is a highly intelligent man. And some may have underestimated what a quick study Bob may be.
Gailon may do a extreme amount of bragging but I do believe there is truth in there somewhere. From what Gailon and others have said the church leadership is well acquainted with his tactics and has put them to use. I don't think that is all hot air either. Gailon completely unleashed may very well have lasting damage to the church. It just may be to late to put the horses back in the barn
Once you have unleashed someone like this it is no different than trying to leash a rabid dog that has been let loose. Someone is going to get bit and hard. Why anyone would place this man in a position to be privy to sensitive private issues on others would be hard to figure. I would not want him to know what I had for breakfast. They may be stuck with not being able to say much.

Dismissing gailon as having nothing of value against 3ABN may be a lot of wishful thinking. It is easy to dismiss the bragging as nothing but hot air,but I do believe he has something other than air.

While I do not believe in the sainted image presented of DS,the behaviour by Gailon and Bob have diminshed honest and real issues concerning 3ABN

[odie1962]

Might be that the SDA leadership was either quietly pleased or giving Gailon kudo's for going after 3ABN.
If memory serves me right the GC was not really enthused about DS and 3ABN. Wasn't there something with Robert Folkenberg wanting control of 3ABN. Maybe now the makeup is more to their liking. But now what to do with Gailon????

[Breezy]

No one thinks DS is a saint. That thought came from Pickle long ago. Pickle is so good at making suggestions in the form of questions, repeating it until people begin to think it is the truth.

However, DS is a respected leader of 3abn. That said, he certainly isn't perfect just as you or I are not perfect. He has probably made mistakes like we all do and learned from them. But DS is not a crook, has done nothing dishonest and doesn't take advantage of others. The IRS exoneration proved it completely. Everyone seems to think they are in the KNOW about DS but most have never been to 3abn and of those who have been there, they have an axe to grind with DS because of ill feelings. One thing I like about DS, he isn't afraid to fire an employee if they are not working up to his high standard--which can make for some disguntled people. Why should people's hard-earned donations go to pay a lazy worker!! DS has even let go of relatives who worked at 3abn who were not good workers. We need more people like DS in the Lord's work!!!

This does bring reproach on the SDA Church but they will not become involved. I don't believe they will because they would have before now. Why should they care anyway--3abn is not under the SDA Church control and there is NO REASON for the SDA Church to be involved in this. However, there was a time when ASI could have settled this long ago except that Linda Shelton and her crew did not cooperate. It wasn't like it wasn't tried. Instead Joy/Linda would rather try to get more $$$ from 3abn. Joy speaks about the people in the pews being ripped off of their donations to 3abn, but the bottom line is that he and LS want some of that money.

Besides, there is a lawsuit going on and it will settle all this. Oh, and I just read over on AT that Joy said there is no evidence for Linda being fired. Excuse me but there IS evidence!! I don't know how many times we have to repeat it--over and over again--and the lawyers know about it. If Joy and Pickle would just cooperate, all this could be over quickly. But they know just enough about the law to think they are experts--and they have tried to do everything they can to make it go on and on and on......

But my question is this: WHO is financing Pickle and Joy? Neither are working and all this is costing them a lot of money. So WHO is paying them to do this to 3abn?

[Breezy]

Odie, I posted the same time as your last post. I have also wondered if the SDA leadership has quietly given Joy kudo's for going after 3abn. But who is paying Joy to do this? Who is paying Pickle to do this?

I believe you are correct when you said Robert Folkenberg wanted to be involved with 3abn long ago. There are Conference workers on the board right now.

[odie1962]

I posted the same time as your last post. I have also wondered if the SDA leadership has quietly given Joy kudo's for going after 3abn. But who is paying Joy to do this? Who is paying Pickle to do this?

I believe you are correct when you said Robert Folkenberg wanted to be involved with 3abn long ago. There are Conference workers on the board right now.

I have no idea who is picking up the tab or steered them onto 3ABN
I would not mistake Gailon Joy for nothing but hot air. Who is paying would be an interesting question.
One thing you can be certain of is what everyone sees Gailon and Bob doing should be bright enough to figure out this is their due if Gailon and Bob are denied. Gailon will not be denied gracefully.
I would not want to be those in leadership position that have previously requested Gailon's help.
I would think that with Conference workers on the board and DS not visible as he was may make the SDA leadership feel they have some input at least.
As to DS, everyting else aside, it has almost a cultish feel to it.

No one knows what takes place in a marriage ,others can only base their opinion on what the participants tell you,which of course can be anything from the truth to partial truth to a flat out lie. Being in their home only means you saw what they wanted you to see. Nor to I believe evryone that is vouching for his business practises were ever taken into his confidence and showed the proof they now vouch for.
While I do believe there has been a resolution with the IRS at least as far as 3ABN goes, I do not believe DS hype.
The IRS does not apologize for auditing anyone and say they shouldn't have. Common sense should explain that one. Nor do I believe the IRS requested secrecy of DS. That is about as grandstanding as Gailons act.
The IRS suppossedly demanding secrecy is a great way to curb discussion as well

I really believe neither . I believe it entirely possible if not likely that Gailon has more than might be thought to have. This is not a dumb man. While ethics and integrity may not be pasrt of his makeup,don't make the mistake of beliving there is nothing there

[Penny]

Gailon may do a extreme amount of bragging but I do believe there is truth in there somewhere. From what Gailon and others have said the church leadership is well acquainted with his tactics and has put them to use. I don't think that is all hot air either.

Could you please expand upon what you are saying here, especially when you say that the church leadership has put Gailon's tactics to use? Does this mean that church leadership (and who do you mean by that) uses the same types of tactics or that they use Gailon himself?

Do you think that it was a deliberate "church leadership" action that "introduced" Gailon to Linda?

[Penny]

I posted the same time as your last post. I have also wondered if the SDA leadership has quietly given Joy kudo's for going after 3abn. But who is paying Joy to do this? Who is paying Pickle to do this?

I have no idea who is picking up the tab or steered them onto 3ABN
I would not mistake Gailon Joy for nothing but hot air. Who is paying would be an interesting question.
One thing you can be certain of is what everyone sees Gailon and Bob doing should be bright enough to figure out this is their due if Gailon and Bob are denied. Gailon will not be denied gracefully.
I would not want to be those in leadership position that have previously requested Gailon's help.

Has anyone asked Gailon or Pickle about this? I'm not a member over at the other site and have no intentions of joining, but if someone would interested enough to go there and ask...I, and undoubtedly many others, would be interested in hearing their responses, well interested in hearing the truth - the whole and complete truth.

[odie1962]

Could you please expand upon what you are saying here, especially when you say that the church leadership has put Gailon's tactics to use? Does this mean that church leadership (and who do you mean by that) uses the same types of tactics or that they use Gailon himself?

Do you think that it was a deliberate "church leadership" action that "introduced" Gailon to Linda?

Don't mistake ugly and bragging for untruth. He has investigated in the past for those (inside) that have required his assistance because they cannot get to the bottom of some issues. I did not say that the church leadership was involved in this. Only that Gailon's services according to Gailon has been used. I have no ide who is picking uup the tab if anyone or who,when amd why Gailon and Bob became so entangled in this

I responded to this.......

The slime factor brought to the table by Joy and Pickle is so well documented it can’t be ignored. I’ve always wished that my church had taken a very public and loud stand against the abuses of David Koresh before the fact rather than as a knee jerk reaction to avoid negative press. Is this a time for those leaders to stand up and be counted now rather than later?


I do think it a major mistake to assume this man has nothing but wind under his belt

[odie1962]

Has anyone asked Gailon or Pickle about this? I'm not a member over at the other site and have no intentions of joining, but if someone would interested enough to go there and ask...I, and undoubtedly many others, would be interested in hearing their responses, well interested in hearing the truth - the whole and complete truth.

It would be interesting to see the response but you can rest assurred it would not be complete truth.

Not to bright to give the man that wants to shoot you a gun.


But NO, I do not know that gailon is doing this because the SDA leadership has pushed him or asked him to.
But I do believe that Gailon would be difficult to stop . I do believe he has done similar before, based on what he has said
To many people are to fast to assure everyone that Gailon doesn't have anything. Time will tell and it will be interesting