BOLD LIARS!!

An OPEN DISCUSSION forum to discuss 3ABN RELATED ISSUES -including posts or articles published elsewhere.

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steffan
Posts: 242
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:12 pm America/Denver

Re: BOLD LIARS!!

Post by steffan »

Nestor,
More than five years have passed since Pr. JL sent this letter to Linda. The passage of time has shown that things that were hidden would be brought to light - now Linda lives with a "dear friend" in Norway, the same one she strenously denied having any relationship with...

Along with this, more than seven years have passed since this thing started and things have become crystal clear as to who is defending God's work and who is busy trying to tear it down. I am no longer going to post any new content at this point. Every once in a while, when I think the issues are buried under inconsequential posts - mostly yours - I will re-post this same post.
Lest we forget the cast of characters that have tried to tear down 3ABN...
Gailon Joy - convicted embezzler.
Bob Pickle - still trying to become hired as a pastor, getting nowhere, in fact moved his membership when he was removed from being elder.
Lynette Rhodes - reported stalker, was reported seen going through ex-boyfriend's (a prosecutor no less!) garbage, police called, "snoopy" ran away and was later found hiding in ditch by said police. Later tried to expunge the report but did not realize that documents can be retrieved by google despite expunging.
A "Dr." who advertised the dispensing of marijuana on her website.
A porno addict who was treated with more grace than he deserves, and yet continues to show his evil character.
Johann - a purported "pastor" who seems to have no difficulty uttering lies - does he realize that Linda calls him "old fool" ?
A "sister" from Switzerland who wrote some of the most vile "fiction" regarding Danny because she and her husband did not get what they wanted at 3ABN?
Alex Walker and "insert-current-male-lover's-name-here"? How does Pickle swallow that camel, while straining at non-existent gnats?
77 Angel Lane P.O. Box 23 ‘Thompsonville, Illinois 62890

January 14, 2006

Linda Shelton -private address removed-

Dear Linda,

Thank you for your speedy response to the letter the Church Board sent to you.
I, was also pleased to speak to you when you called me Sabbath afternoon. I
thought that our conversation went well and I listened to your observations
hoping that we would be able to help you. I was somewhat surprised how soon you
had Derrell Mundall hand deliver your reply letter to me at my office.

As I read it I was a bit disappointed to see that you expressed so little
confidence in the church board, the church members, and in me. To incessantly
suggest that the church is made of “compromised” members is quite short-sighted
on your part. This board is not made of people bought by Danny Shelton. It is
comprised of God-fearing Christians that understand all too well the great
responsibility of making well informed decisions.

It is enlightening to see how you unceasingly, and relentlessly, attempted to
dismiss your poor decision making by maligning others.

It was also quite manipulative on your part to imply that my “dreams of many
years to be on TV” disqualified me as an objective pastor. Linda you may
remember, it was at your urging that Danny called me to join the 3ABN family.
At no time did I even call or suggest that I was interested in being on TV.
Years before I even knew of 3ABN, Doug Batchelor and I were already on
television; not to mention countless other times without Doug. It was on the
heels of Net ‘99 in New York that I was invited to sing at 3ABN; prior to that
I had not heard of 3ABN. The doors that opened at 3ABN were not opened by any
dream on my part, of which there was none concerning 3ABN but by the hand of the
Lord.As a matter of record you probably remember well when you said to
me,”John, God brought you to St. Louis so that we could bring you the rest of
the way.” To suggest that you will be not be able to receive fairness and
impartiality is ludicrous.

Linda, as we look at the time-line of events you were the first one to call me
and ask for counsel about your friendship with the doctor. It was after I
arrived at your home that I heard the other side of the story. It was hearing
both sides that led me to give you counsel to sever the relationship with the
doctor from Norway. I made that decision as your pastor and as a marriage
counselor with 16 years experience, not as a “back-pocket” servant of Danny
Shelton.

It has been nearly two years since this escapade started and you will recall
that from the very outset, that Tuesday night in your living room, when you
made the decision not to sever your relationship with the doctor, you set the
course that led you to where you are today. Linda, the decision to hold on to
someone other than your husband in spite of the months of counseling, was a
critical decision in furthering your downfall. To further compound the matter,
you still held firmly to your course after the relentless pleading from your
friends, confidants, pastors, 3ABN board members, and non-Adventist counselors
to sever the relationship. One has to be quite short-sighted and uninformed to
come to the conclusion that all of those people were ”compromised.”

You also mentioned that no one made an attempt to visit you and minister to
you. Speaking for Angie and I, you may remember that when you made the
decision to move to out of your home and go to Marion for ”more privacy,” we
called you and asked if we could come and visit with you. You refused by saying
that you were not ready and that you would let us know when you were ready for
our visits. You never contacted us so we can only assume that you did not want
a visit from us. Even when we saw you in the mall with Danny, we asked again
about visiting and you said "I will tell you when.”

Many of the people that are still supporting your cause were not at ground
zero. You continue to suggest that it was the subsequent decisions that other
people made, rather than the initial one that you made that landed you where
you are. One of the greatest evidences of hazardous decision-making on your
part is the fact that you and the doctor are still in a relationship.

There was never a conspiracy to get rid of you and to refuse you a fair
hearing. You were, and are greatly loved by many of the people at 3ABN and
Thompsonville Seventh-day Adventist Church. However, love for someone and
loyalty to them are not always the same. While we love you, we must be loyal to
the truth and to the Lord. That is where we must be accountable.

God placed within your hands the responsibility of carrying a message to the
world. It is unfortunate that you came to the place where your desires became
more important than the responsibility placed on you through the message.
Linda, God called you and the Bible says in Romans 11:29 ”For the gifts and
calling of God are without repentance.” God called King Saul and God called
David; both of these followers of God sinned. The difference between a ”king”
and a ”shepherd boy” was clearly seen. Saul was too great to repent and turn to
God and the record is clear concerning his fate. David, although his fall was
great, turned to God with the heart of a repentant servant. For our admonition
David’s prayer of repentance was preserved in Psalm 139:23,24 (KJV),”Search me,
0 God, and know my heart; Try me and know my thoughts and see if there be any
wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.”

I read your recent response letter to the church board dated October 31,2005,
and I hope that the declaration that you made, ”Let it be known that I am
innocent of the rumors and allegations made against me, ”is not written in
stone. Linda, on this note you were correct, ”Man can remove job titles.”
However let me caution you about the rest of your declaration, ”No man can take
away my calling which I will continue to pursue.” Saul pursued a course that
dishonored God and God removed him. On the other hand David repented and
pursued a course that opened the way for God to restore him. The eternal
question is one to deeply and prayerfully ponder. Which course will you pursue?
David humbled himself under the Almighty Hand of God and was restored. In spite
of the dark stain of David’s past the apostle Paul preached a message that
recalls the fate of these two great men. He writes in Acts 13:21-22 (NKJV),”And
afterward they asked for a king; so God gave them Saul the son of Kish, a man
of the tribe of Benjamin, for forty years. (22) “And when He had removed him,
He raised up for them David as king, to whom also He gave testimony and said,
’l have found David the son of Jesse, a man after My own heart, who will do all
My will.”


Linda, from the first night that I sat before you in your living room I made a
statement that has so far proven to be true. I said to you, ”Satan wants to
destroy you, your ministry, your career, and your marriage. ”The results are
evidence that to this day Satan has prevailed. I am hoping that he will not
prevail in robbing you of your salvation. Just recently I read the chapter ”Why
Was Sin and Suffering Permitted,” from the book, ”Patriarchs & Prophets.” I was
deeply impressed again by what I read to further warn you that you are still on
enchanted grounds and that the enemy is not done. Here are a few of the quotes
that opened my eyes:

“The angels whom he could not bring fully to his side, he accused of
indifference to the interests of heavenly beings. The very work which he
himself was doing, he charged upon the loyal angels. It was his policy to
perplex with subtle arguments concerning the purposes of God. Everything that
was simple he shrouded in mystery, and by artful perversion cast doubt upon the
plainest statements of Jehovah. And his high position, so closely connected
with the divine government, gave greater force to his representation.

“He had artfully presented his side of the question, employing sophistry and
fraud to secure his objects. His power to deceive was very great. By disguising
himself in a cloak of falsehood, he had gained an advantage. All his acts were
so clothed with mystery that it was difficult to disclose to the angels the
true nature of his work. Until fully developed, it could not be made to appear
the evil thing it was; his disaffection would not be seen to be rebellion. Even
the loyal angels could not fully discern his character or see to what his work
was leading.”


“Rejecting with disdain the arguments and entreaties of the loyal angels, he
denounced them as deluded slaves. The preference shown to Christ he declared an
act of injustice both to himself and to all the heavenly host, and announced
that he would no longer submit to this invasion of his rights and theirs.”


Linda, I saw that because of your great influence Satan would come at you with
great intensity. If you persist in holding to the self-deceiving position that
you have done nothing wrong, you are preparing yourself for the completion of
Satan’s plan, complete destruction. As long as you play the role of total
innocence, you are a gullible prey..

That is why we prayed for you when you were in your post at 3ABN and we will
still pray for you. Our deepest prayer is that you discover that greatness
comes not from being served but serving. We pray for your supporters because
they only know the side that you presented. Our prayer is that the Lord will
bring softness to your heart to make you a servant. At the end of the day it
must be seen that it is “Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,’ Says the
LORD of hosts. ”Zechariah 4:6 (NKJV).

Linda, God has not called us to be famous but to be faithful. I pray that you
will respond to the Holy Spirit’s call to faithfulness.

We deeply regret that you have made the final decision to have your membership
dropped from the church, but we do not have the right to refuse your written
“formal request.”

The church chose censure rather than removal of membership because it was our
desire to connect you with a Seventh-day Adventist church where you could find
spiritual healing and recovery, not to cause you any further hardship. It is
not our prayer that you pursue your calling; it is our prayer that you pursue
the heart of God.

Your greatest blessing will come when you are restored to wholeness in the
sight of God. God will richly bless you, not on account of whom you are, but on
account of whom He is. Seek His kingdom and His righteousness and all that He
has for you will be added.

Yours in Christ,
Pastor John Lomacang
uncovering truth
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:12 pm America/Denver
Location: Crookston, MN

Re: BOLD LIARS!!

Post by uncovering truth »

It is interesting that Bob has not denounced, refuted, or denied the Jesuit accusations. It's all circumstantial at this point, but he sure doesn't do much to deny the accusation. So let's assume the accusation is true. What better avenue into the Adventist faith than someone who is an ardent apologist for Mrs. White. Great cover!

But then one has to wonder why a man who has:

A. so voraciously sought an Adventist publishing house to publish is defense of Mrs. White (and been turned down multiple times),
B. and who has exhibited a tremendous amount of animosity toward ASI for their rejection of his application (tying it to their support of 3ABN),
C. and who has tried to secure a pastorate for decades and continually been rejected by a number of conferences,

would do anything but attempt to tear down 3ABN.

Bob was a Catholic, went to Catholic schools, has a reputation as being a constant divisive element in every church he has been part of. I don't recall an instance where Christ was ever a divisive element within the early Christian church. Bob has, instead, held himself up as the moral equivalent of Christ, the judge and jury of those who admit their fallen nature, and the arbiter of dogma within the Adventist church.

There is going to be a hard fall when he realizes that he is not the equivalent of a priest within the Adventist Church insuring that only those who meet >his< definition of orthodoxy make it to heaven.
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Lilly
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:32 pm America/Denver

Re: BOLD LIARS!!

Post by Lilly »

Reading the topic Bold Liars made me think of Johann. He has said numerous times that if someone catches him in a lie that he wants them to prove it. Well here it is Johann please explain.
I'll start with a question. Who's side is Johann on anyway? Seriously. Sometimes it's very confusing to decide. I know he has openly supported Linda and his friend AA for years after DS refused his counsel. His counsel to DS that was he should turn the other cheek and allow LS to have a relationship with AA. while they were married. He said in time she would wisen up and would want to come back to DS and that he should be patiently waiting with open arms as he once had to do in his marriage. When DS told Johann about AA inviting LS to Florida to His condo for a vacation and LS trying to use Brenda W. as a decoy, Johanns response was...what's wrong with that.. AA has invited numerous married women to his Fla. condo (though he lives in Norway) and their husbands really appreciated him for doing so! Who's side are you on anyway Johann? You help neither LS or AA with that kind of defense! I don't blame DS for not taking that kind of advice from a supposed SDA minister.
Back to the recent lie.
Johann writes that the Danish Union Paper did three articles claiming that DS's book was contrary to the writings of EG White. He also makes the claim that the Danish Church press refused to publish DS's book and that it was then published privately. Then he humbly asks the question, How is this going to help finish the work?
When his own people ask him for proof was when he started skating. Johann's history in the writings I've read is not usually to tell big lies that can be so easily proven wrong. His MO is to suggest or ask subtle questions and then when his piers run wild with it to sit back and act as though he is surprised by all the accusations. Nice try Johann but this only works on fools. When Pickle asked him for the page # of the Error that prevented the Danish Press from publishing DS's book (as he calls it) Johann only refers the reader to a Danish link. Johann claims to have taught English. Wouldn't it be easier to just quote for all those not fluent in Danish? As the flame gets hotter he then tries to shake the dogs off by making the statement that the writer thinks the book is devoid of Jesus avoiding his EG error comment. I'm not sure that Johann even knows the difference any more between truth and error. We all know that if DS and SQ's book contradicted the writings of EG White that BP, Joy, and even preacher Johann would have brought it up sometime in the last 6+ years! If the writings had been at odds with the SDA church why did the Review and Herald publishing Co. print over a million of them knowing they would go to the masses of people? Why would Elder Ted Wilson still be supporting DS and 3ABN as he is a great supporter of EG White. He would have refused the interview that will be on next Thursdays's 3ABN live. You see Johann the people on your site may take this garbage and run but not the people here who are standing for truth.
I ask again, who's side is Johann on? Johann, once again LS will undoubtedly distance herself from you or call you an old fool again when she finds out that you have accused her of loving money more than God! I don't blame her for being upset with you. And you called her out publically! As you know LS sued DS over 6 yrs ago and they are still in court as LS claims that DS wrote the book while they were married and she makes claims that she read the book. Now Johann, if LS is a spiritual person who loves God the way you portray her to be, would she be suing DS in court trying to get royalties from a book that contradicts EG White and thus Adventism in general??? I would think as good a Christian as you portray he to be that she would refuse any $$ even if offered to her! Right? As the old saying goes...With friends like Johann..who needs enemies!
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Lilly
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:32 pm America/Denver

Re: BOLD LIARS!!

Post by Lilly »

I think I should add that even if one writer in the SDA church accused TCTR of being contrary to EG White, (which has not been proven) it still doesn't make the statement true. The Devil always fights truth. But the truth prevails. I'm told that nearly 10,000,000 of these books have been distributed by SDA's. Isn't it interesting the church presses around the world are printing this book and yet, according to Johann, it contradicts EG and the SDA Church? And obviously preacher Johann has bought into the idea that this book has error in it or he wouldn't be asking the quesion of ...how is this book going to help finish the work? Also Johann, if you think the book is contrary to SDA beliefs then it is very telling about your own theology! Maybe Pickle shouldn't be the only one in question.
Nestor
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:14 am America/Denver

Re: BOLD LIARS!!

Post by Nestor »

In reference to a book pubolished by 3-ABN, Lilly asks a lot of Whys. The underlying assumption, it seems to me to be that a SDA press would never publish anythign that went against Adventism, the Bible and/or Ellen white. Also that denominational officials would never endorse such.

Well, as has been published and presented at confernces, there are some who beleive that there are five (5) distinct groups that esist within Adventism today and have some differences in belief and life style. Authors who come from these backgrounds often differ as to what the Bible and EGW teach. In recent history (I Do not refer to Battle Creek) is has been thought that denominaitonal presses have published material that disagreed with the Bible and/or EGW. I could give specific examples of such.

An example of one such author is Samuele Bacchiocchi who prior to his death took a possition on a section in Revelation that confused and angered some of his following as it seemed to them to suggest that EGW Was wrong (or at least incomplete) on a point of prophecy.

My point is not to say that a publicaiton of 3-ABN is either wrong oragainst what the Bible or EGW taught. It is simply to say that a claim of correctness should not be made on the basis of who endorsed it or who published it.

My personal posiiton is: The publications of 3-ABN generally represent the understandings of one of the groups within Adventism. certainly they can be reviewed for editorial errors which often creep into published works. When they make statements of fact and/or history those can be considered and challenged if thought to be wrong. As to their Biblical teachings, they should be judged by the Bible and compared with EGW. I suspect that most of the 3-aBN s upporteers would agree with me on that.
Truth
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:09 am America/Denver

Re: BOLD LIARS!!

Post by Truth »

The name of this thread is "BOLD LIARS" What makes them "bold" liars is that they make accusations but do not back them up with any evidence.

Pickle has posted several things but has never once presented any evidence. I believe he made up these up out of thin air. He has no evidence of the following below and neither can he present any evidence. Worse yet, he repeats them over and over again, hoping that people will believe him.

People---ASK FOR THE EVIDENCE. Don't just believe what Pickle says. If he is sincere, he will give his evidence that we all can examine. It is a fool who believes whatever someone says without evidence. What do I mean by evidence? Actual REAL evidence on paper, that says exactly what Pickle has stated. You won't find it. How do I know that? The IRS found nothing amiss at 3ABN. A letter was issued from the attorney's office in writing stating this as a fact. You can find it on this forum here: http://www.3atalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=11

Now think for a moment. Attorney Duffy wrote this letter. THIS is certain PROOF that 3ABN was exonerated from any wrong-doing. This would include all transactions by 3ABN. This has exonerated Danny Shelton from taking any money from the offerings, for any claims that he has been given land, that he has done anything wrong with housing. And so on........

Pickle, what part of this letter from Attorney Duffy do you not understand? In my opinion only fools see the evidence and then continue talking as if it were NOT TRUE.

WHERE IS HIS EVIDENCE?

1) 3ABN paid 1 million to the IRS to be exonerated from all charges. You can't prove this because you MADE THIS UP out of thin air yourself Pickle. I want to see your proof and if you don't have it, it is time to stop opening your mouth and inserting your foot.

2) 3ABN never litigated the trademark issue. Prove it. I want to see this from PACER--print the evidence.

3) 3ABN lost the litigation. Not true. Again, prove it. From PACER

4) Danny lines his personal pockets with the huge donations received by supporters. FALSE--prove this Pickle--again made up out of thin air. There is no evidence at all.

Pickle has done everything he can to murder Danny's reputation. Won't work Pickle. Anyone with any amount of education can see through you and see your motives clearly. Your hatred of Danny Shelton is unworthy of someone who claims to be a Seventh-day Adventist.
Nestor
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:14 am America/Denver

Re: BOLD LIARS!!

Post by Nestor »

In my opinon, those who discuss whether or not Pickle lis a Jesuit engage in the same behavior that they decry in Pickle.

In my opinion, Linda has been the same target of inappropriate attacks as have been made against Danny.

In my opinion, two wrongs to not make a right. IOW bad/evil/immoral/inappropriate action does not justify the same respnose.

Just my opinioin.
truthlover
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:01 pm America/Denver

Re: BOLD LIARS!!

Post by truthlover »

I've read very little over the years of this and the other forum until lately I read enough to get a handle on who's trying to accomplish God's work and whos trying to destroy it.
I do appreciate what 3atalk is doing. I don't really know you Gregory but am surprised that you can't see the difference in the two sites.

The other site that starts with an A is an attack site. (Maybe its A for attack). 3atalk is a defensive site. For years B and P and Johann and others have attacked not only the ministry of 3ABN but have personally attacked the individuals comprising the 3ABN board, DS, SQ, BW, JG, and numerous others.

Greg, you say you are an SDA. Let me give you an example you may understand. I don't mean to talk to you like a kid, but you do write a lot and say very little at times and seem to have trouble comprehending the difference between the two sites.

I think you would agree that SDA's have been called Catholic bashers by some Christian folk ever since EG White wrote the Great Controversy, (and possibly before). I doubt you believe that SDA's are guilty of bashing the Catholic Church or it's individual members. If you believe that SDA's are CC bashers, then it gives me a better handle on your mindset. If you agree that SDA's are not Catholic Bashers...the question would be why not? Much is written in this vain by SDA authors.

One of the themes of the Great Controversy and the bible is the Mark of the Beast, the AntiChrist, apostate Protestantism, etc.

Here's one answer. SDA's only write and teach things about the Catholic Church that the Catholic church writes or teaches about it's self. Are you following me? This MO is not an attack on Catholisism or it's people. We read in Revelation about a church that will think to change times and laws as an identifying Mark of the Beast Power. SDA's point to the fact that the Catholic Church changed the Sabbath (or tried to) from Saturday to Sunday which is not bibilically supported. Thus one of the identifying Marks of the Beast power. How do we know that the Church tried to change the bible Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday...They brag about it in their own writings.. The bible gives another identifying Mark of the Beast power when it says this power will claim to forgive sins. You can read it in Mark 2:7. The Catholic church openly claims that priests can forgive sins thus gathering another identifying Mark of the Beast power. All of the information brought to light to the world about the Catholic Church has been gotten from them.

Now Greg, Do you agree this kind of writing should not be termed Catholic bashing? If SDA's made up things about the CC and spread nasty rumors and hearsay and gossip then this would be an attack mode and would be in my opinion Catholic bashing. SDA's realize that God has people in ALL churches, so do not point fingers at individuals but at the institution.

The other site that starts with the letter A is in a constant attack operation with the goal of causing destruction. They will not let the truth get in the way of a good story. 3Atalk is in defensive mode. The other site speaks bold things, including lies, with the intent on destroying or murdering people's characters. yet their site claims that no one posting there can attack individuals. Really? DS has been attacked and his character assassination is the center of their mission.

While things are said about those folks here on 3Atalk, it is only being made clear that what is being posted there by these people are mostly lies and the folk on the 3atalk site hold them accountable for their lies. This is probably enough said for now.
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Cynthia
Posts: 618
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:00 am America/Denver

Re: BOLD LIARS!!

Post by Cynthia »

Nestor wrote:In reference to a book pubolished by 3-ABN, Lilly asks a lot of Whys. The underlying assumption, it seems to me to be that a SDA press would never publish anythign that went against Adventism, the Bible and/or Ellen white. Also that denominational officials would never endorse such.

Well, as has been published and presented at confernces, there are some who beleive that there are five (5) distinct groups that esist within Adventism today and have some differences in belief and life style. Authors who come from these backgrounds often differ as to what the Bible and EGW teach. In recent history (I Do not refer to Battle Creek) is has been thought that denominaitonal presses have published material that disagreed with the Bible and/or EGW. I could give specific examples of such.

An example of one such author is Samuele Bacchiocchi who prior to his death took a possition on a section in Revelation that confused and angered some of his following as it seemed to them to suggest that EGW Was wrong (or at least incomplete) on a point of prophecy.

My point is not to say that a publicaiton of 3-ABN is either wrong oragainst what the Bible or EGW taught. It is simply to say that a claim of correctness should not be made on the basis of who endorsed it or who published it.

My personal posiiton is: The publications of 3-ABN generally represent the understandings of one of the groups within Adventism. certainly they can be reviewed for editorial errors which often creep into published works. When they make statements of fact and/or history those can be considered and challenged if thought to be wrong. As to their Biblical teachings, they should be judged by the Bible and compared with EGW. I suspect that most of the 3-aBN s upporteers would agree with me on that.

While I agree that no one is immune to errors or deception and so all l should be judged according to God's word after prayer and according to the leading of the Holy Spirit according to that, and even EGW's writings judged by that first and foremeost and used as a supplement only after that, and understanding the difference between her understandings according to her day and what she wrote as led or inspired, rather than as the scriptures, instead of or apart from that as some do...

Really?
"One of the groups within Adventism"??? You "suspect most of the 3abn supporters would agree with you"? I don't agree. I don't think so, personally. I am thinking many or most would would not agree with you, GM... I mean you don't even seem to understand why Jesuits would infiltrate the SDA church or be concerned with us despite the writings and documentation historically about them... (Hello! they were kicked out of almost every single country (worldy powers and principalitys in the world before the U.S. was founded and even after that) their mission was to defeat false religion and control governments, as they believed the world was to be led by the Pope (their only representative and spokesman for God's Church- Peter's successor) So they believed it was their duty to know all, to infiltrate all, and they were the only confessors between all monarch's and god and privy to all. Their mission was (is) to combat all false religion and governments which to them was what was not catholic (universal) or controlled by the church as they considered that heresy, They did then, and still do believe in a union of church and state which we (SDA's and protestantism as founded) DO NOT, since Israel -led directly by God- ceased to be a nation, and we know confusion insued.... Why would they be different today? DO SOME RESEARCH! I am not going to do the work for you, but it's WELL DOCUMENTED. (Jesuits, Jesuitism, society of Jesus...) You don't believe EGW is historically accurate in regards to them, fine, then use encyclopedias and even dictionaries, even the Catholic encyclopedia!) Then again, that's my view, my opinion... so choose not to look it all up and not to agree that we have wolves in sheep's clothing within our church or that we have more to fear from within than without. I WILL NOT choose to believe that. I know what the bible says about that, and I personally know that wolves in sheep's clothing are NOT the same as the tares amongst the wheat... You do not, imo, even understand the concept of "The Great controversy" between Jesus and his angels and Satan and his, and how that is being played out here on earth, etc, and is the cause of all this division, strife and every sin, pain and vice... What?!? How as a SDA could you fail to understand that?!? I don't mean this in a bad way, but really? how is it at your age and based on your years in the SDA church and all the prophetic and historical and biblical documentation that you do not.? That, I'm sorry, is hard for me to understand....

IMO, Perhaps the better definition of Seventh-day Adventism would be it's historical founding writings and documents? Perhaps, those who disagree with those things should start their own church? I mean think about it... that's how the different protestant churches originated. All understanding that they needed to follow their own conscience and beliefs. None sought to stay in a church they believed wrong or in error. All spoke out reguarding what they believed and lived that, but when others didn't agree, they moved on, none thinking they could change or dictate to others or control conscience. They believed all had the same right as themselves and should follow what they believed right and what God said and revealed to them, as lead by the Holy Spirit. All, once upon a time, understanding that only He would judge, and it was Him who was leading, and only He could restore all and reunite all, and make all new and ok, and perfect? Why is it Adventism has this different factions problem, and none willing to start their own church, and all now thinking that they alone are the "true Adventists" and squabbling amongst themselves.. Isn't that just babble and confusion, and aren't we warned of such? Didn't Israel do the same? I remember though while sitting with a historic Pastor and a visiting Pastor, explaining that like the dry bones of Gilboa we couldn't ask all to join with us and unite, as we were all isolated atoms and dead by ourselves. We might want to unite, but by ourselves, according to our rules and lines in the sand it was impossible, as we all needed Christ to unite us and be the tie that binds, and to bring us to life and unite us. They couldn't understand...as they had these rules that all had to adhere to, and said " if two don't agreed how can they walk together?" That's not it, really! We can walk together if we are following the Lord, despite our differences and our places in line or steps on the journey, cause if He is leading, we are all gonna get there. So that broke my heart. I never went back, but pray they learn that as the disciples did in the upper room after Christ's death, they didn't agree on all, even after that, but all were ONE, for they loved and served him and that's the way they all lived, walked, and worked,. Him first, self last.. no more "who comes first in your kingdom. He met all their needs, and they literqally turned the world upside down. IF we could only get and understand that today, we could also do that and more, for we are promised that! Our Lord always keeps his word,and He never fails, even when we do. That is a fact.

How in the world did there become so many factions within Adventism without those who accept all those claiming each diametrically opposed faction is an Adventist and we need to disagree embracing the ecumenical movement, or becoming Pharisees? What I am talking about is those who disagree with the original fundamental SDA fundamental beliefs and writings telling those who agree with them, "You need to understand and accept those who disagree and allow us to, but.. who never allow those they disagree with the same rights, and constantly argue and tell them they are wrong? or those who say, this is my belief and definition of such and such a verse, and here is my definition and rule about that, follow it.. or you are apostate or in error....

I know, differences occur, within Adventism but... the thing is that should be about new things, new understanding and not be involved with the established understanding and proven beliefs. Prophecy is understood as it comes to pass. Much has passed and is understood, some is still yet to be understood, we need to, imo, understand the difference.



And, in any case...

I am quite sure Jesus knows who is SDA, who his people are, and that they are registered and remembered in the books of heaven.

I'm just sayin... I trust Him, He knows and thank God for that.
~ Cindy
Nestor
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:14 am America/Denver

Re: BOLD LIARS!!

Post by Nestor »

Truthlover said:
One of the themes of the Great Controversy and the bible is the Mark of the Beast, the AntiChrist, apostate Protestantism, etc.
I would call all of those sub-themes of the book which we commonly call THE GREAT CONTROVERSY.

I will suggest that there is a general theme that is over-araching in many fo the writings of Ellen G. White. That theme is not limited to THE GREAT CONTRVERSY but in in the Conflict of the Ages series of books. It begins with the story of Adam and Eve and ends with the end chapters of THE GREAT CONGROVERSY. In my opinion, it is broader than the Mark of the Beast, the AntiChrist and apostate Protestantism.
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