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[steffan]

When you become self-appointed reprover of others' sins, then be sure that your own life meets scrutiny.

PickledJoy, Snoopy/Lynette, Sister/Fiscalini, Artiste/Westphal, Habanero/Derrell Mundall - all spread bogus allegations and slime all over the internet. Let everyone be aware and beware of these slime spreaders.

And the only ones sanctioned by courts so far are...drumroll.... Linda and Gailon Joy - viewtopic.php?f=9&t=167&sid=7d96ec16f82 ... ef08#p1182

PickledJoy remind me of Judas at the anointing of Jesus' feet when they say:"Is it right that donors' money be spent on a lawsuit?"

In the meantime, they are more than willing to take the same donors' money in order to compensate them for their expenses. They make false and malicious accusations and then expect to be paid for their "work" !

Judas was an embezzler and funnily enough, so is Gailon. Coincidence? I think not. Always beware of embezzlers. They pretend to be the most righteous "warriors" and turn out to be the biggest betrayers.

[odie1962]

When you become self-appointed reprover of others' sins, then be sure that your own life meets scrutiny.

PickledJoy, Snoopy/Lynette, Sister/Fiscalini, Artiste/Westphal, Habanero/Derrell Mundall - all spread bogus allegations and slime all over the internet. Let everyone be aware and beware of these slime spreaders.

You have a point but missed mine. If you want to expose someone be upfront about it. Whatever Derrell has or has not done the little titilation thown out here is not upfront. When you say divorce and non-custodial parent cannot be with children overnight slime spreading seems to be a practised art. I do not know this man,have no idea what he has done. I know from the little game of pretend what it was we very well might think. This was not accidental.
You got a beef with Derrell and you want "his sins" out there quit the game playing and do it,otherwise leave it alone.

And the only ones sanctioned by courts so far are...drumroll.... Linda and Gailon Joy - viewtopic.php?f=9&t=167&sid=7d96ec16f82 ... ef08#p1182

PickledJoy remind me of Judas at the anointing of Jesus' feet when they say:"Is it right that donors' money be spent on a lawsuit?"

In the meantime, they are more than willing to take the same donors' money in order to compensate them for their expenses. They make false and malicious accusations and then expect to be paid for their "work" !

Judas was an embezzler and funnily enough, so is Gailon. Coincidence? I think not. Always beware of embezzlers. They pretend to be the most righteous "warriors" and turn out to be the biggest betrayers.

I have no love for what Joy/Pickle/Johann are doing. It does not take a genius to see and know the lies,implications etc they put out there. They should not be protected. Neither should anyone that sets out to harm for the sake of harming .
When one side begins to play the game of innuendo and implication they are no different than those they condemn.

It is very tough to defend oneself against innuendo and sly implication,almost impossible. But something I learned long ago from my dad.
Watch how friends/acquaintences treat those they are at odds with. That is how you will be treated when it is expedient or you have disappointed them. I have yet to see it fail. Because I disagree with Sunny and think what she did and the reasoning she used was wrong I believe she would treat me in the same manner. With any knowledge of my life or what I may have done wrong, I would expect to see alluded to,innuendo or by implication.

If someone has something to say,say it and stop the game of pretend. It doesn't look good on either side

[steffan]

aka Habanero aka beartrap

has not been responsible enough to pay child support. He knows exactly what other acts he committed. Since he keeps on opening that rather useless mouth of his, the world should know what kind of person they believe in. The credibility of the people who have self-appointed themselves as "accusers" of 3ABN is extremely important.

I remember Gailon crowing about "REAPING THE WHIRLWIND" with regard to 3ABN's IRS investigation. He also crowed about "seven figure" settlements that would be made with the IRS. How about that, PickledJoy? Not a cent. How about that, Fran? No "reward" for you.

Now in PickledJoy style let me ask PickledJoy crowd - please disprove that your sanctioned medical doctor is not dispensing marijuana. After all, I posted the links and the information about her supposed "practice"

On an interesting note, 420centers offers to prescribe marijuana for "stress" - absolutely something that a professed Adventist would prescribe for.

[Cynthia]

.

No matter where one goes to interview for a job, does the would be employer investigate the last 30 years of their life to see if they sinned or made mistakes in that time frame? Ridiculous. Of course not.

If the mistake or sin was of such a nature as to put others at risk or the org. itself at risk,someone best be looking at past conduct.

While this may be true, and IF SO care and safeguards should be taken if that is the case that does not imo mean every Tom, Dick, and Harry needs to know about it, or that he/she should not be allowed to work and never given a chance to do so. People do repent and change, that is the miracle that often occurs with love, mercy and grace. I think recent history is much more important than past history... Because it may be impossible with man but I firmly believe all is possible with God. If he/she screws up again, well he had his chance and opportunity and needs to pay the piper.

Also job references just don't go back 30 yrs and ask about sins... and even when background checks are run, if there is no crime or conviction reported,that is what the Employer goes by. Employers are not expected to run around and see if there are any unsupported or unproven allegations against the applicant and refuse to hire them on that basis. That would be ludicrous.

A few years ago a ministry had an employee who was named by a number of female co workers of sexual harassment. Each one was willing to testify that he was guilty of sexual harassment. He left almost immediately and was soon hired by the GC. When he left that ministry, those involved prayed with him and encouraged him to tell the truth but when he didn't they realized that this man's salvation is between him and God alone. They did not go public with this man's sins. I believe some at the GC knew about his past but they allowed him to work there anyway. Mr. Pickle would do well to realize that it wasn't that ministries job to continue to accuse and antagonize that man. It was not the ministries responsibility to judge the GC for hiring him even though they may have known of his "problem".

This is more damning than encouraging. The fact that our denomination has done this should be a matter of shame rather than pride.. Yes the individual conferences and the GC do turn a blind eye to many sins of sexual misconduct.

I agree often a blind eye and shuffling of responsibility and accountability occurs ( to our shame) but confronting someone, being aware, taking safeguards, praying with and for an individual is a far different thing than turning a blind eye and allowing sins and wrong doing to continue. Individuals need to be safe, and no compromises with that, in a way that also reflects God's Love, Mercy and Grace and give our fellow human beings a chance to change while also protecting others from them and making them at the same time accountable..

The man that caused our family so much heartache also did not have his sins made public for 30 years and five conferences knew and allowed the destruction of the lives of many.

See? this is what I was talking about. Love and mercy and Grace or healing and helping mend broken people is not the same as not using common sense and righteous judgment, or the same as condoning and allowing the sin to continue and victims to accumulate. All imo didn't need to be made public, but the man should have had those who cared enough for him and others to document, make him accountable and work with him while at the same time protecting others from him and even he from himself... IF that had been done, I think he either would have been changed or been stopped long b4 your son and DIL entered the picture.

I am not sure but think we may not all be in disagreement here, just all of us speaking of different aspects here.

anyway, some of my thoughts...

..ian

[odie1962]

While this may be true, and IF SO care and safeguards should be taken if that is the case that does not imo mean every Tom, Dick, and Harry needs to know about it, or that he/she should not be allowed to work and never given a chance to do so. People do repent and change, that is the miracle that often occurs with love, mercy and grace. I think recent history is much more important than past history... Because it may be impossible with man but I firmly believe all is possible with God. If he/she screws up again, well he had his chance and opportunity and needs to pay the piper.

Yes they do. All should be given a chance,but not at the expense of another.
I believe the claim that Derrell was used as an example was a thinly disguised desire to imply while at the same time pretending innocence as a motive. Generally speaking there is very narrow reasons why a parent has limitations as this put on them.
I know nothing of Derrell and right or wrong people like Derrell should know better than to engage in a fight . Both sides get bloody so if you are afraid of the sight of blood it is best to say nothing.
It is past that for most now and maybe Derrell has this coming,but when I see anyone do what they condemn in others and then pretend higher motives for same it makes me a little edgy in the trust dept.

Also job references just don't go back 30 yrs and ask about sins... and even when background checks are run, if there is no crime or conviction reported,that is what the Employer goes by. Employers are not expected to run around and see if there are any unsupported or unproven allegations against the applicant and refuse to hire them on that basis. That would be ludicrous.

You are right but that wasn't my point. Within the church structure there should be a detailed report that follows people that engage in this type of behavior. James Cress goes so far as to say that allegations unproven should be part of the file.
All along the way for 30 years people/employers did exactly as related by Sunny. He showed remorse,he was doing the Lord's work etc. The reasons are as many as the years it has been used.
There are major gaps in the safeguards the church professes to use. There was a very good chance that the MT conference was going to hire this character after losing his credentials here. When I called our conference and requested they contact them and contacty the other conferences as to the man they were dealing with.
The response I got was "Typically we don't do that but if a conference should contact us we would inform as to no hire".

Sunny said....
A few years ago a ministry had an employee who was named by a number of female co workers of sexual harassment. Each one was willing to testify that he was guilty of sexual harassment. He left almost immediately and was soon hired by the GC. When he left that ministry, those involved prayed with him and encouraged him to tell the truth but when he didn't they realized that this man's salvation is between him and God alone. They did not go public with this man's sins. I believe some at the GC knew about his past but they allowed him to work there anyway. Mr. Pickle would do well to realize that it wasn't that ministries job to continue to accuse and antagonize that man. It was not the ministries responsibility to judge the GC for hiring him even though they may have known of his "problem".

I can't even tell you what admissions like this do to many. The GC, no matter how powerful,or how godly they see themselves has any right whatsoever of hiring this man under these circumstances and placing others at risk. Aside from that if he re-offended the GC likly find themselves writing a big check with lots of zero's. The knowledge or "should have known" does not play well in the courts.

I agree often a blind eye and shuffling of responsibility and accountability occurs ( to our shame) but confronting someone, being aware, taking safeguards, praying with and for an individual is a far different thing than turning a blind eye and allowing sins and wrong doing to continue. Individuals need to be safe, and no compromises with that, in a way that also reflects God's Love, Mercy and Grace and give our fellow human beings a chance to change while also protecting others from them and making them at the same time accountable..

I was not objecting to safeguards or pryaing for the individual. Leaving it between the man in question and God is not their right when others likly would be harmed. It shows nothing of remorse in the telling. A man without remorse is one who will re-offend

See? this is what I was talking about. Love and mercy and Grace or healing and helping mend broken people is not the same as not using common sense and righteous judgment, or the same as condoning and allowing the sin to continue and victims to accumulate. All imo didn't need to be made public, but the man should have had those who cared enough for him and others to document, make him accountable and work with him while at the same time protecting others from him and even he from himself... IF that had been done, I think he either would have been changed or been stopped long b4 your son and DIL entered the picture.

Ian, I understand that. But the words you are using are the very same that was used to allow this to continue. I don't believe that is what you think but that is what is done over and over

I am not sure but think we may not all be in disagreement here, just all of us speaking of different aspects here.

anyway, some of my thoughts...

Maybe it is from a selfish perspective only but I always am a little relieved when a predator receive help. The chances are slim of most overcoming this,but for each one that is helped and does,there is one less like my former DIL

[Cynthia]

When you become self-appointed reprover of others' sins, then be sure that your own life meets scrutiny.

PickledJoy, Snoopy/Lynette, Sister/Fiscalini, Artiste/Westphal, Habanero/Derrell Mundall - all spread bogus allegations and slime all over the internet. Let everyone be aware and beware of these slime spreaders.

You have a point but missed mine. If you want to expose someone be upfront about it. Whatever Derrell has or has not done the little titilation thown out here is not upfront. When you say divorce and non-custodial parent cannot be with children overnight slime spreading seems to be a practised art. I do not know this man,have no idea what he has done. I know from the little game of pretend what it was we very well might think. This was not accidental.
You got a beef with Derrell and you want "his sins" out there quit the game playing and do it,otherwise leave it alone.

I don't personally think any game playing has been done. Those who were involved have all been named. Anyone can contact them, no anonymous people.. What he did was not the main point. I think the beef and main point was about how Derrell Mundall has been treated compared to how he has treated and is still treating others....

This is not an expose' of Derrell, but rather an illustration. If it were I would be more specific. Hope Channel knew of Derrell's problem but didn't choose to let him go because he told Brad Thorpe and Gary Gibbs that it was a PAST problem. 3ABN leaders also knew of Derrell's problem but decided to let him stay on because he likewise told them that his "problem" was in the past. Derrell showed signs of remorse and asked for prayer. Pastor Johny D. also prayed with him over this problem. Pastor Thomas the T'ville pastor knew of this problem and even censored DM for six months. These are facts that can and have been proven. Yet everyone was willing to try and give him help and support. Danny was willing to allow him to continue to work at 3abn regardless that Darrell and Melody were divorced, regardless of Derrell's self confessed problem and regardless of Danny's personal feelings over the situation.

Even after being told that Derrell was on the internet telling lies about Danny and 3abn, painting everything in the worst light possible, Danny, Melody and 3abn chose not to go public with proof of Derrell's problems. In my mind there is no excuse or justification for Derrell's actions against 3abn. He has repaid their kindness and christian actions with lies.

What was the illustration about? As stated:

"Even when people make mistakes we as individual Christians and 3ABN as a Christian organization needs to help mend and restore those that are willing to admit their wrongs, and ask forgiveness. Derrell M, beartrap/habanero, is one such case."

What condemns him in my eyes? The parable in Matthew 18.

It is a fact that despite Derrell Mundalls claims here, which Pickle just used in court to promote the idea he is persecuted and DS is the big bad wolf:

Attached hereto as Exhibit K is an email from Mundall, quoting an internet post
attached hereto as Exhibit L. Mundall told me in this email that, even though the instant lawsuit was dismissed, Shelton will not stop until “he has you completely ruined and incapable of ever living a normal life again.”

Subject: It won't end
From: Derrell Mundall
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 20:58:06 -0800
To: Bob


Hi Bob,

Just want you to know that just because 3ABN and Danny chose to drop the suit against you and Gailon you shouldn't get comfortable and think its over now. It is my experience and observation that Danny doesn't allow a person to just walk away. I believe he wont let you go either. If a lawsuit doesn't work, I believe he will try something else and keep trying until he has you completely ruined and incapable of ever living a normal life again, but he will not just give up.

A very good point was made at the following link and I agree with it.
http://www.adventtalk.com/ forums/index.php/topic,1313.msg15462.html#msg15462

It says the following:
"That would be fine and reasonable, Bonnie, except that in with Danny they are dealing with someone who doesn't walk away. They are dealing with someone for whom a fight is a fight to the finish. When this one is over someone will walk out of the ring and someone won't. I think Duane knows that when in a fight with Danny a person doesn't ever just bite the bullet and walk away. They will not be allowed to walk away. One battle may be closing, but the war is no where near done. Look at the Linda thing. Years later Danny and his minions still pursue her and they will continue until she is irreversably crushed and has
no chance of standing again."

I don't mean to be discouraging after all that you have been through, but in all fairness I have to tell you, I believe that post is accurate and that what has just concluded is simply one battle, not the war. Don't let your guard down for a minute. Stay alert and just plan on more brutal attacks coming your way.

Sincerely,
Derrell Mundall

(FYI: When Mundall says "A very good point was made at the following link and I agree with it" he is actually quoting and agreeing with himself, as the post and quote is from "Habenero". Darrell Mundall posts as "Habenero" on AdventTalk.com, "Beartrap" on BSDA, and under his own name here on this forum.)

When he tells Bob: " It is my experience and observation that Danny doesn't allow a person to just walk away." ?

Fact: He has nothing to support that. What has Danny done to Darrell his ex son-in-law, and ex-employee? What has Danny ever done to prevent Derrell Mundall from walking away? What brutal attacks has Danny lodged against DM? Where has he been pursued years later and been crushed to where he can't stand again? where has that even been attempted? where is this in his experience as he claims?

He said "I think Duane knows that when in a fight with Danny a person doesn't ever just bite the bullet and walk away." what is that supposed to mean? What has been done to Duane Clem?

Derrell mundall is a member here, he reads here regularly. We know this because he ( as Habenero) keeps commenting on that and ridiculing us on adventtalk...

So go on Derrell. Tell us please, explain this, and document it. What justifies your statements and claims about your experience with DS, and your warning and attempts to get Bob Pickle, and others to fear DS, or any othes at 3abn, and believe you? And WHY after being given so much mercy are you so unmerciful?

Pickle also claims in the most recent court filings on PACER that you are one of his main sources for (my words) "unsupported and unsubstantiated" allegations:

"30. Attached hereto as Exhibit R is the letter with enclosed motion that I served on January 3, 2008, upon Nicholas Miller, Linda Shelton’s counsel, and Mundall, putting them on notice that the Defendants were planning on adding them as third-party defendants in the instant case using the grounds of detrimental reliance. On the last page are the certified mail receipts for
serving Nicholas Miller and Mundall."

In the attached Pickle and Joy claim:
"Pursuant to Rule 19 and Rule 14, Defendants pray the court to permit them to amend their answers to the Plaintiffs’ Complaint to add Third Party Defendants...Linda Sue Shelton,.. and

Derrell Mundall, of __ Loma Linda, California, is the ex-husband of
the daughter of Danny Lee Shelton and the terminated Marketing Director for Three Angels Broadcasting Network, Inc. who supported Linda Sue Shelton’s statements and claims of innocence, and who preserved much of the documentation upon which the Defendants relied in their investigative journalism. Mr. Mundall was and is a substantial source of original claims and allegations relating to the Defendants."

all quotes found in doc 152 and exhibits: http://www.3atalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=127

so.. waiting...

..ian

[odie1962]

I have no argument with what you have said. None at all. What I took exception to is the implications and innuendo in Sunny's post. She says Derrell is guilty of something and let's it hang. Mentioning the children and let it hang. If this is pertinent just come out and say it. Yet the man employed by the GC shall remain nameless.
Maybe it is justified,I don't know this man and have no contact with him. But if there is justification and some likly feel there is don't do what is condemned so strongly. If it is worth saying and has relevance to this, say it

There is no way I would/could defend what I have seen by Bob/Gailon and company. Crystal is a good case in point,joining the forum and then implying without really saying anything.
I don't care who it is done to, implications are hard to address. Bob and Gailon are expert at getting a lot of mileage out of implications.
Personally I think it will get worse. Bob and Gailon will work hard at getting DS to sue again IMO.

[Penny]

I have no argument with what you have said. None at all. What I took exception to is the implications and innuendo in Sunny's post. She says Derrell is guilty of something and let's it hang.

...

Bob and Gailon will work hard at getting DS to sue again IMO.

Odie - While I cannot bear the innuendos either, I believe that Sunny's post was an attempt to point out that Derrell has hurled all manner of innuendos, insults, slime and what all else at 3ABN and Danny, while at the same time he, Sunny reports, was himself involved in less than desirable activities. And 3ABN and Danny have not retaliated by publishing what amounts to the rest of the story about Derrell. That being said, Sunny tells a story, but provides no evidence to back it up. And on this point I agree with you. She shouldn't have brought it up online, without at least documenting her statements - as Steffan has done. Then, carrying it on further...I imagine that providing evidence would undoubtedly publicize events that are better left unpublicized.

My next thoughts run along the lines of ... when will Linda come online and tell her side of the story? Perhaps one of these sites can open up a thread of "questions I would like to ask Linda" and then have her come online and answer the questions for herself, instead of having her side of the story filtered through the likes of GJ and RP - who are tiresome at the very least.

And finally - why should Danny and 3ABN even waste another thought about suing GJ and RP again?

[odie1962]

Bob and Gailon will work hard at getting DS to sue again IMO.

Odie - While I cannot bear the innuendos either, I believe that Sunny's post was an attempt to point out that Derrell has hurled all manner of innuendos, insults, slime and what all else at 3ABN and Danny, while at the same time he, Sunny reports, was himself involved in less than desirable activities. And 3ABN and Danny have not retaliated by publishing what amounts to the rest of the story about Derrell. That being said, Sunny tells a story, but provides no evidence to back it up. And on this point I agree with you. She shouldn't have brought it up online, without at least documenting her statements - as Steffan has done. Then, carrying it on further...I imagine that providing evidence would undoubtedly publicize events that are better left unpublicized.

My next thoughts run along the lines of ... when will Linda come online and tell her side of the story? Perhaps one of these sites can open up a thread of "questions I would like to ask Linda" and then have her come online and answer the questions for herself, instead of having her side of the story filtered through the likes of GJ and RP - who are tiresome at the very least.

And finally - why should Danny and 3ABN even waste another thought about suing GJ and RP again?[/quote]


Penny said-
That being said, Sunny tells a story, but provides no evidence to back it up. And on this point I agree with you. She shouldn't have brought it up online, without at least documenting her statements - as Steffan has done. Then, carrying it on further...I imagine that providing evidence would undoubtedly publicize events that are better left unpublicized.


Derrell might be guilty of all sorts of things. When you leave something like "loss of overnight privileges with children" in such a manner and adding Derrell agreed as he did not want to fight the issue in court it leaves a distinct implication that the children were in harm's way if he had them overnight unsupervised. If he has lied,produce it or give your reasons for claiming that. If he is not paying child support prove it or explain how you know.
But leave the children of others out of this as to implying . There are few reasons that someone is prohibited from having their children overnight . The main two are physical or sexual abuse. Proof of that should be required only when and if it becomes necessary to do so legally or to prevent further harm.

[Sam]

When you become self-appointed reprover of others' sins, then be sure that your own life meets scrutiny.

PickledJoy, Snoopy/Lynette Rhodes, Sister/Fiscalini, Artiste/Westphal, Habanero/Derrell Mundall - all spread bogus allegations and slime all over the internet. Let everyone be aware and beware of these slime spreaders.

You have a point but missed mine. If you want to expose someone be upfront about it. Whatever Derrell has or has not done the little titilation thown out here is not upfront. When you say divorce and non-custodial parent cannot be with children overnight slime spreading seems to be a practised art. I do not know this man,have no idea what he has done. I know from the little game of pretend what it was we very well might think. This was not accidental.
You got a beef with Derrell and you want "his sins" out there quit the game playing and do it,otherwise leave it alone.

And the only ones sanctioned by courts so far are...drumroll.... Linda and Gailon Joy - viewtopic.php?f=9&t=167&sid=7d96ec16f82 ... ef08#p1182

PickledJoy remind me of Judas at the anointing of Jesus' feet when they say:"Is it right that donors' money be spent on a lawsuit?"

In the meantime, they are more than willing to take the same donors' money in order to compensate them for their expenses. They make false and malicious accusations and then expect to be paid for their "work" !

Judas was an embezzler and funnily enough, so is Gailon. Coincidence? I think not. Always beware of embezzlers. They pretend to be the most righteous "warriors" and turn out to be the biggest betrayers.

I have no love for what Joy/Pickle/Johann are doing. It does not take a genius to see and know the lies,implications etc they put out there. They should not be protected. Neither should anyone that sets out to harm for the sake of harming .
When one side begins to play the game of innuendo and implication they are no different than those they condemn.

It is very tough to defend oneself against innuendo and sly implication,almost impossible. But something I learned long ago from my dad.
Watch how friends/acquaintences treat those they are at odds with. That is how you will be treated when it is expedient or you have disappointed them. I have yet to see it fail. Because I disagree with Sunny and think what she did and the reasoning she used was wrong I believe she would treat me in the same manner. With any knowledge of my life or what I may have done wrong, I would expect to see alluded to,innuendo or by implication.

If someone has something to say,say it and stop the game of pretend. It doesn't look good on either side

Odie, at this point, I believe you are the one sitting in the judgement seat. You are stating as fact what I think, know or am doing by mentioning Derrell. The truth is, I don't have to explain it to you or anyone else but since you have judged me I will say this much. If I wanted to expose Derrell, I and many others could have done so long before now. When he started his lies on the internet, believe me, many were tempted. To think that someone with his background would throw stones at anyone else much less make up out and out lies about them, was beyond belief. I kept thinking that a normal person would have been way to afraid to throw out the stones lest they roll back on him. Then I realized the key to my thinking was using the word "normal". I was right. A "normal" person would never put themselves at such risk.

Regardless, I don't play cat and mouse. If or when I decide to lay Habanero's problems out on the line, I will do so. He has been unmerciful towards 3abn but 3abn has been merciful to him. I for one don't want to be on the same level as Pickle and Joy. But, people need to realize if they want to jump into the fray as Derrell has, tell lies and distort the truth, then he should be ready for the boomarang effect and take it like a man.

Odie, you need to realize that everyone here doesn't have to answer to you or your particular standards. I am sorry about what happened to your son but you base every accusation, story or innuendo on that one situation. It colors your judgement. Under those circumstances maybe it is impossible for you to be objective..that is understandable. But, at least be aware that you can't be objective and are way too quick to jump to judgement on situations that you know nothing about.